B

and among other Things took Notice, That it was his Misfortune to know too much of the Influence that the Officers of the Customs and Excife had at Elections; for at his own Election, there were many of the Voters were fo free and open, as to come to him and tell him, they would vote for him rather than any other, but that thofe Officers had threa ten'd to ruin them if they did; and others told him, that they had Promises either for themselves or their Sons to be made Officers in the Cuftoms or Excife by his Antagonist ; and as their Bread depended upon getting those Promifes fulfilled, which they could not expect, if they did not vote against him, therefore they hoped he would excufe them.Thus, Sir, fays be, I know the Evil of this illegal Influence by Experience, and therefore I fhall always be against any Measure that may tend to encrease it, as this Scheme moft evidently will; for, I hope, I fhall always difdain to owe the Honour of reprefenting my Country in Parliament to any Administration whatever; I hope I fhall always depend upon the free Votes of my Fellow-Subjects, and for that reason I must be against what I think will deftroy that Freedom, upon which only I am refolved always to depend.

to the Parties concerned; for whatever In-
Auence the Nomination of these Officers by
the Crown might have on their Actions, or
however regardlefs their Power being un-
controllable might make them in their De-
terminations, this Check must prevent the
Execution of their Intentions, were they in- A
clined to abuse their Power in Favour of the
Crown; it will certainly make them more
deliberate in giving Judgment, when they
fhall reflect, that their Judgments are liable
to be canvaffed in a fuperior Court, where no
Favour, no Intereft can screen an ill Action;
the Judges to whom the Appeal must be made
have their Offices for Life, and therefore can-
not reasonably be fuppofed to be biaffed fo as
to countenance any unlawful Steps of the
Commiffioners, let them be the Favourites of
any Minifter whatever, or let the Party op-
preffed be ever fo obnoxious to an Adminiftra-
tion. There is alfo another Benefit that
will attend the Succefs of this Scheme, which C
is the Repeal of an Act made the 11th Year
of the late King, which obliges People to ac-
cufe themselves: As this is certainly a very
great Grievance, the Repeal must be a very
agreeable Relief to thofe fubject to it. I hope
therefore, if this Queftion paffes, when the
Blanks in the Bill come to be filled up in the D
Committee, thofe Gentlemen who think that
there are any unneceffary Claufes in the Laws
of Excife, will take this favourable Oppor-
tunity to have thofe Laws reviewed, and by
the Addition of proper Claufes to the Bill
How to be brought in, to extend the Regula-
tions of them in Behalf of the Subject, as
far as may not leave the Duties under the Ma- E
nagement of the Commiffioners open to grofs
Frauds. This Scheme therefore, as it is in-
tended to be a Review of the Excife Laws,
and an Amendment of the Rigour of thote
Parts of them, where lefs Severity would fe-
eure the Duty to the Publick, appears in
this Light as much in favour of the Subject,
as of the Revenue; and when it comes to be
rightly apprehended, and the Benefits at-
tending it are felt and diffufed through the
whole Nation, I believe it will foon take a
more favourable Turn among the People;
the ill Imprefions of it that may now be in-
duftriously spread Abroad, I should think
would foon fubfide and be forgot. --- I fhall
only add, that fince upon the Examination
of the particular Merits of this Scheme, the
Advantages propofed by it, appear to me to
be certain, and of fuch a Nature, as not only
to increase the Publick Revenue, without a-
ny new Tax on the Subject, or an Addition
to any one now in Being, and advance the H
Intereft of our Trade and Plantations; but al-
fo at the fame Time to raise the Value of
the Lands of Great Britain, I fhall there-
fore readily give my Affent to it.
4-

Sir T

fpoke next against it,

F

G

After him the L--d Gl-----y spoke for agreeing, L--d M----th against it. W--m C-n, Efq; one of the L--ds of the T---y for it. And then

Wm Py, Efq;] Sir, I must say, that the recommending the Care of the public Revenue to this Houfe, the recommending to us a Scheme which he thinks may tend to the increafing of it, are Doctrines which come very properly from the Hon. Gentleman that fpoke laft, who for feveral Years has had the fingering of the publick Money, as he himflf was pleafed to exprefs it: But I hope thofe Gentlemen will confider that they and their Pofterity are not all to enjoy the fame Pofts they enjoy at prefent; they may perhaps expect that they themselves are all in for Life, but they cannot imagine that thofe Pofts are to go by way of Inheritance to their Heirs; and therefore I hope, that for the fake at leaft of their Pofterity, they will confider a little the Power and Influence this Scheme will give to the Crown, and fuch a Confideration muft certainly be of fome Weight in the prefent Debate even with those Gentlemen, --- The Liberties of this Country depend upon the Freedom of our Elections for Members of Parliament; our Parliaments, efpecially the Reprefentatives of the People in Parliament affembled, are defign'd for, and generally have been a Check upon those who were employ'd in the executive Part of our Government; but if it shall ever come to be in their Power to have fuch an Influence over most of the Elections in the Kingdom, as to get any person chofen they please to recommend

B

C

Scheme all Manner of Frauds in the TobaccoTrade will be prevented for the future; but the Thing is in its own Nature impoffible; when the Duties amount to five or fix times the prime Coft of the Commodity on which they are laid, it will be impoffible to prevent Frauds; and therefore the Increase of the publick Revenue by this Scheme is fo far from being certain, that it is altogether precarious; and unless it be thereby greatly increased, the Land-holders can expect no Relief: But granting that the Benefits expected by this Scheme were certain, it is as certain, that our Conftitution will be thereby destroy'd; and are we to make a Sacrifice of our Conftitution, for the poor Confideration of adding 4 or 500,000l. a Year, to the publick Revenue? That Increase may foon be diffipated by an Administration under no Fears of being called to an Account by Parliament, and then they will be obliged to come upon the Landholders for Money to answer the neceffany Scrvices of the Publick. There never was in any Country a Scheme fet up for introducing arbitrary Power, but what was fupported by fome fpecious Pretences: The preventing of Mobs, Infurrections, Invafions, Frauds, or the like. have in all Countries been made the PreD tences for introducing arbitrary Power; but in fuch an Aflembly as this, where the Principles of Liberty fo much prevail, where there are fo many Gentlemen of good Senfe and Penetration, I hope no fuch Pretence will ever be of any Weight. To me it appears indifputable, that this Scheme is abfolutely inconfiftent with a free Election of Members of Parliament, and of Confequence it must be inconfiftent with our Conftitution; therefore tho' the Advantages to be reaped therefrom were greater, and much more certain than they are, I fhould be moft heartily against it, and for that Reason I must give my Negative to the present Question.

mend, they will then always have a Majority
of their own Creatures in every House of
Commons, and from fuch Representatives
what can the People expect? Will fuch a
Houfe of Commons ever be any Check upon
thofe in Power, or find Fault with the Con-
duct of the most rapacious, the moft tyranni-
cal Minifters, that may hereafter be employ
ed by the Crown. - It is well known, that
every one of the publick Offices have already
fo many Boroughs which they look on as
their Properties; fome may be called Trea-
fury Boroughs; others Admiralty Boroughs;
in fhort, Sir, it may be faid, that almoft the
whole Towns upon the Sea-Coast, are alrea-
dy feiz'd on by the Officers of the Crown: In
moft of them they have fo great an Influence,
that none can be chofen Members of Parlia-
ment, but fuch as they are pleased to recom.
mend. But as the Customs are confined to
our Sea-ports, this Scheme feems to be con-
trived to extend the Laws of Excife, and
thereby the Influence of the Crown over all
the inland Towns and Corporations in Eng-
land. This feems plainly the chief Defign
of the Scheme now under our Confideration;
and if it fucceeds (which God forbid) our fu-
ture Minifters of State will be very much
obliged to the Gentlemen who projected it;
the Election of a House of Commons, will
be an eafy Task for whoever fhall be prime
Minifter under any of our future Kings; he
may fit at Home, and iffue forth his Orders
to most of the Counties and Boroughs in Great
Britain, to chufe fuch Perfons for their Re-
prefentatives in Parliament, as he fhall pleafe E
to think moft proper for his Purpose: Moft
of the chief Clerks of the Treasury, and o-
ther great Offices, are already Members of this
Houfe; they deserve it, they are Gentlemen,
and Men of Figure and Fortune in their.
Country; but if this Scheme takes Place, we
may in a little Time fee all the little under
Clerks of the Treasury, and other Offices,
Members of this Houfe; we may fee them
trudging down to this House in the Morning,
in order to give their Votes for impofing Taxes
upon their Fellow Subjects, and in the After
noon attending behind the Chair of a Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, a Secretary of State,
or other chief Minister; Nay, fome of us
may live to fee a vain over-grown Minifter of
State driving along the Streets with fix Mem-
bers of Parliament behind his Coach.-- Thefe
Sir, must be the fatal Confequences of the
Scheme now under our Confideration; and
therefore I must think that every Man who
as a juft regard to the Conftitution of his
Country, or to the Liberties and Properties of H
thofe that have put their Truft in him, is
in Duty bound to give his Negative to the
prefent Question. ---- Gentlemen may indulge
themselves in the vaia Conceít, that by this

F

G

Mr Cr of the E---r spoke next. Then Wm Py, Efq; spoke again. And after him.

W-- Pr, Efq; ftood up, and among other things took Notice of fome Gentlemens having faid, that no Body had oppofed the fubjecting of Coffee, Tea, and Chocolate to the Laws of Excife, but the hon. Gentleman under the Gallery (meaning Sir--n B----rd.) But, fays be, I must put thofe Gentlemen in Mind, that I had then the Honour to be a Member of this Houfe, and I thank God I did oppofe that Excife-Scheme as well as I fhall do this, and every fuch Scheme that shall ever be offered to this House, while I have the Honour of fitting in it. I know how grievous and oppreffive the Laws of Excife are to my Fellow Subject; and therefore I think I cannot answer to my Country, if I do not to the utmost of my Power oppafe

every Scheme that fhall be offered for the Extenfion of thofe vexatious and arbitrary Laws. H-m-y P---s Efq; spoke next against agreeing th the Refolution. Mn B-n Efq; fpske for it. Sir J-n H---d C-n against it. Sir W----m Y----ge for it. Sir W----m Cy, and G----ge B---s, Ef, against it. Jn N-le Efq; and Sir W ---m L-r for at. And G---- L----n, Efq; Sir G----ge C----ll, and H----y W----r, Esq, against it.

At laft the Queftion was put upon the 1ft Refolution, which on a Divifion was carried in the Affirmative, 249 against 189.

The Question was then feverally put upon the two next Refolutions, which were agreed to without any Divifion; and the laft Refolution being read a 2d time, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer acquainted the Houfe, That bis Majefty gave bis Confent, that the Houfe might do as they should think fit, in relation to the faid Fines, Penalties, Forfeitures, and Seizures. Whereupon the Queition was put, and agreed to without any Divifion.

A

.

B

Then it was ordered, that a Bill should be brought in, purfuant to the faid Refolutions, and that Sir Charles Turner, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr Attorney General, Mr Sollicitor General, Mr Doddington, Mr Clayton, Sir William Younge, Sir George Oxenden, D Mr Scrope, and Mr Edward Walpole, fhould prepare and bring in the fame.

This famous Bill, (See p. 301-2, and p. 309, 310.) was accordingly brought in the 4th of April, and read a first Time; after which Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer by his Majef ty's Command, acquainted the Houfe, that his Majefty confented to their making fuch Alterations as they fhould think fit, for the publick Service, in relation to the Subfidy on Tobacco then payable on Account of his Majefty's Civil Lift. It was next objected, that fome Parts of the faid Bill were not within the Refolutions of the Houfe, purfuant to which the faie Bill had been ordered to be brought in; and therefore moved that the Bill Thould be withdrawn, which patted in the Negative, 232 against 176: Then a Motion was made for adjourning, which alfo pafled in the Negative: At laft it was refolyed that the Bill fhould be read a fecond time, and order'd that it should be read a fecond Time on that Day fe'nnight, 236 againft 200. April 5. a Motion was made for the printing fuch a Number of Copies of G

the faid Bill, as fhould be fufficient for the Ufe of the Members of the Houfe; but on the Question's being put, it was carried in the Negative, 128 against 112.

As this Bill very much concerned the Trade and Commerce of this Nation, the Lord Mayor of the City of Londom procured a Copy of it foon after it was brought into the Houfe of Commons, and laid it before the Common Council, where it was refolv'd to petition the House against it, and a Peti

F

H

tion being immediately drawn up and agreed
to, the fame was prefented to the Houfe on
the 10th of April, and is as follows:

To the Honourable the Commons of Great Britain
in Parliament assembled,

The Humble Petition of the Lord Mayor,
Aldermen, and Commons of the City of
London, in Common Council assembled,
Sheweth,

That your Petitioners obferve, in the Votes of
this Honourable Houfe, that a Bill has been
brought in, pursuant to the Refolutions of the
16th of March, for repealing feveral Subfidies
and an Impoft now payable on Tobacco of the
British Plantations, and for granting an Inland
Duty in lien thereof.

That they prefume therefore in all Humility, by a respectful Application to this Houfe, to exprefs, as they have already done, in fome Meafure, by their Inftructions to their Members, the univerfal Senfe of the City of London, concerning any farther Extension of the Laws of Excife.

That the Burthen of Taxes already impofed en every Branch of Trade, however chearfully born, is feverely felt; but that your Petitioners apprehend this Burthen will grow too heavy to be born, if it be encreased by fuch vexatious and oppreffive Methods of levying and collecting the Duties, as they are affured, by melancholy Experience, that the Nature of all Excifes muft neceffarily produce.

That the Merchants, Tradesmen, and Manufalarers of this Kingdom, have fupported themfelves under the Preffure of the Excife-Laws, now in force, by the comfortable and reasonable Expectation, that Laws which nothing but publick Neceffity could be a Motive to enact, would be repealed in favour of the Trade of the Nation, and of the Liberty of the Subject, whenever that Motive fhould be removed; as your Petitioners prefume it effectually is, by an undifturbed Tranquillity at home, and a general Feace fo firmly established abroad.

That if this Expectation be entirely taken away, if the Excife-Laws, inftead of being repealed, are extended to other Species of Merchandize not yet excifed, and a Door opened for extending them to all, your Petitioners cannot in Juftice to themselves, to the Merchants,Tradefmen, and Manufacturers of the whole Kingdom, and to the general Interest of their Country, conceal their Apprehenfion that the most fatal Blow, which ever was given, will be given on this Occafion to the Trade and Navigation of Great Britain; that that great Spring from which the Wealth and Prosperity of the Publick flows, will be obftructed, the Mercantile Part of the Nation will become not only lefs able to trade to advantage, but unwilling to trade at all; for no Person who can enjoy all the Privileges of a British Subject out of Trade, even with a small Fortune, will voluntarily renounce some of the most valuable of thofe Privileges, by subjecting kimjelf to the Laws of Excife.

That

That your Petitioners are able to shew that thefe their Apprehenfions are founded both in Experience, and in Reafon; and therefore your Petitioners moft humbly pray, that this honourable Houfe will be pleased to hear them by their Counsel against the faid Bill.

A

by every one of the Parties petitioning: That though every Part of the Nation had their Reprefentatives in that Hoafe, yet it was well known, that Speaking in Publick was a Talent that every Man was not endowed with, from whence it might happen, that the particular Perfons, or Part of the Nation, which was then to be aggrieved by what was paffing in the House, might not have any fuch Members as were proper to lay their Cafe fully and clearly before the Houfe, and that therefore, even as to MoneyBills, it was proper to admit Parties to be heard against them, when it appeared that they were very particularly interefied therein. -But as to the Cafe then before them, there was not the leaft Pretence for refusing the Defire of the Petition, because the Bill against which it was prefented, was no Money-Bill; it was granted by the Advocates for the Bill it was even infified on, as the greatest Argument for it, that there was no new Duties to be impofed; it was a Bill only for altering the Method of collecting the Taxes already impofed; and therefore it could not be pretended that there was any Practice, or Cuftom of the House for refusing to admit Parties interested to be heard against fuch a Bill: That if there had been fuch a Custom introduced it ought not to be observed, especially when fach a confiderable Body as the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of London, come with a humble Petition to be heard against a Bill, which they thought would not only be highly injurious to them in particnlar, but deftructive of the Trade and Commerce of the whole Nation.

The prefenting of this Petition brought the Excife Scheme again on the Carpet. The City of London has always enjoy'd this Privilege, that any Petition from them is prefented to the Houfe by their Sheriffs, and is brought up by the Clerk of the House and read at the Table, without asking the Leave of the Houfe for that Purpofe; whereas all B other Petitions must be prefented by a Member of the Houfe, and cannot be by him brought up or read at the Table by theClerk, till Leave be firft asked of, and granted by the Houfe. Accordingly this Petition was brought up, and read at the Table; and as foon as it was read, Sir --n B--· ·rd got up, and in a Speech full of that Strength of C Reafon and Perfpicuity of Expreffion, which he is fo much Mafter' of, he fhewed how much the City and Citizens of London, as well as all the other Trading Part of the Nation, were to be affected by the Bill for altering the Method of railing the Duties payable upon Tobacco, and how juft Reason they had to infift upon being heard by their D Counsel against it, and concluded with a Motion for granting them Leave to be heard by their Counfel, if they thought fit.

In Oppofition to this Motion, it was infifted on, That it had always been the Practice of that Horfe, never to receive any Petitions, and much less to admit Connfel to be heard against any Bill for impofing of Taxes upon the Subject for that if any fuch Thing were to be admitted of, it would be impoffible ever to pass any fuch Bill, because that there would be fo many different Petitions prefented against it by thofe who were to be subject thereto, that it would be impoffible to hear Connfel feparately upon every Juh Petition, within the ufual Time of the Continuance of one Seffion of Parliament: And that in refufing to admit Comfel to be heard, there could be no Inconvenience, because every Man, and every Body of Men, had their Reprefentatives in that Heufe, if any particular Hardship was to be put upon them.

E

G

To this it was reply'd, That the Honfe had never pretended to any general Custom of refufing Petitions, except against thofe Bills which were called Money Bills, fuch Bills as were brought in for raising Money for the current Service of the Tear; and that even as to them there were many Precedents where the Honfe had admitted the Parties whom they thought to have a real Intereft therein, to be beard by their Counsel against the paffing of fuch Bills: That H the admitting of Counsel even in fach Cafes could never prevent the paffing of fuch Bills, because the Houfe could always order all Parties petitioning to be heard a one Time, and could give fuch Directions, that it would never take up many Days to hear every thing that would be objelled

In this Debate there were many Precedents brought by Mr S---ys, Mr G---b---n, and Mr B-tle, where the House had received Petitions, and admitted Counfel to be heard against Money-Bills; and there were likewife Precedents brought by Sir W---m ----ge and Mr Won, where the fame had been refufed, the reading of which took up a great Part of the Day.

The Principal Speakers for granting the Defire of the Petition, were,

B

fembled) in Behalf of themselves, and the
reft of the Merchants and Tradefmen deal-
ing in Tobacco in the faid Town, was pre-
fented to the Houfe, and read; alledging,
that the Bill depending in the House for re-
pealing feveral Subfidies, and an Impoft then A
payable on Tobacco, &c. would be highly
prejudicial to them, and encroach on their
Liberties and Properties, and exprefling their
Apprehenfion that the faid Bill, if pafled in-
to a Law, would fubje&t them to great Op-
preffions and Inconveniences; by the Of
ficers frequently entering their Houfes, and
taking Account of their Stocks, which fuch
Officers might difcover to any others; by
being obliged to feck for, and fend Permits
with their Goods, and the Hardfhips there-
of with respect to time; by not being al-
lowed the valuable Liberty of redreifing
their Grievances by a Jury; and by the
great Trouble, Charge, and Lofs of Time
in weighing their Tobacco at any Time re-
quired by the Officer, and the Prejudice to
their Goods in uncasking and breaking them;
and therefore befeeching the Houfe to con-
fider and favour their Petition, and prevent
the paffing a Law, which would be any ways
deftructive of the Trade, or dangerous to the
Liberties of the Petitioners, which Petition
was ordered to lie upon the Table.

C

D

but this Propofition did not come the length of a Motion, or a Queftion; fo that the firft Motion was agreed to without Oppofition; and upon the Friday after, which was the Day appointed for the Houfe to refolve

i:felt into a Committe of the whole Houfe,

to confider further of the most proper Methods for the better Security and Improvement of the Duties and Revenues then charged upon, and made payable from Tobacco and Wines, it was refolved, that the Houfe would upon the 14th of June then next refolve itself into the faid Committee, 118 a

gainft 76: So that that Part of the Scheme relating to the Duties on Wine was never laid before the House.

There having been great Crowds of People about the Houfe on the 11th of April, and fome of them having behaved in a tumultuous Manner, the next Day Complaint was made to the Houfe by feveral Members who had voted in favour of the Scheme, that a tumultuous Crowd of People had been affembled together the Night before and feveral Days during the Seffion, in the Court of Requests, and other Avenues to that Houfe, and that they themselves and feveral other Members of the Houfe had been laft Night, in their Return from the House, menaced, infulted, and affaulted, by a rumultuous Crowd of People in the Pallages to that Houfe; whereupon it was refolved and declared, Nem. Con. 1ft, That the affaulting, infulting, or menacing any Member of that Houfe in his coming to, or going from the House, or upon the Account of his Behaviour in ParEliament was an high Infringement of the Privilege of that Honfe, a moft ontragions and dangerous Violation of the Rights of Parliament, and an high Crime and Misdemeanor. 2dly, That the affembling and coming of any Number of Perfons in a riotous, tumultuous, and diforderly Manner to that Houfe, in order either to hinder or promote the paffing of any Bill or other Mat

Immediately after which, a Petition of the principal Inhabitants, and Traders of the ancient and loyal City of Coventry, in Behalf of themselves and the reft of their Fellow-Citizens, was prefented to the House and read; expreffing the Apprehenfion of the Petitioners, that the Bill, depending in that Houfe, for repealing feveral Subfidies and an Impoft then payable on Tobacco,&c. would be prejudicial to the Trade of the Nation in general, and of the faid City in particular, and alfo injurious to the Liberties of their Fellow-Subje&s; and therefore praying the Houfe to take the Premifes into Confideration, and give the Petitioners fuchter depending before the House, was an high Relief therein, as to the Houfe fhould feem meet. Which Petition was likewife ordered to lie upon the Table.

G

The Order of the Day being then read for the fecond Reading of the faid Bill, the Serjeant at Arms attending the House, was of Courfe ordered to go with the Mace into Westminster-Hall, and the Courts there, and into the Court of Requests, and the Places adjacent, and fummon the Members there to attend the Service of the Houfe; and he being returned, inftead of reading the Bill a fecond time, a Motion was made by Mr. Cr of the E----7, that the Bill fhould be read a fecond Time upon the 12th of June then next. Tho' by this Motion it evident- H ly appeared that the Bill was to be dropt, yet fome of the Gentlemen who had from the beginning appeared ftrenuously against the whole Scheme, were not fatisty'd with letting it drop in fo eafy a Manner, and therefore they were for having it rejected; *S" Rob. Walpole

that

Infringement of the Privilege of that Houfe,
was deftructive of the Freedom and Conftitution
of Parliament, and an high Crime and Mifde-
meanor. 3dly, That the inciting and encouraging
any Number of Perfons to come in a riotous,
tumultuous, and diforderly Manner to
Hofe, in order either to hinder or promote the
paffing of any Bill or other Matter depending
before the House, was an high Infringement of
the Privilege of that House, deftructive of the
Freedom and Conflitution of Parliament, and an
high Crime and Misdemeanor.

Then it was ordered, 1ft, That the Members for the City of London, fhould fignify the faid Refolutions and Declarations to the Lord Mayor of London. adly, That the Members for the County of Middlesex, should fignify the faid Refolutions and Declarations to the Sheriff of Middlefex. 3dly, That the Members for Weltminster fhould fignify them to the High-Bailiff of Westminster. Which Orders were accordingly fignified by their refpective Members,

who