SIR IR R---t W---le's Speech and Motion to take 500,000l. from the Sinking Fund for the fervice of the Current Year 447 Mr P---y's Answer, Sir R---t's Reply 448-9 Sir -- B-d and Sir W--m W--nd--m, upon the Landed Intereft and temporary Expedients 449-50 Mr P---m and Mr D--n--rs for the Motion 450-I Mr Wr's Remark on Scotland 452 7--b T--r, Efq; his Reason against the Motion ib. A fecond Debate on the fame Subject, managed by Mr S--ys, Mr Sb---n, Sir Wm Y--ge, Mr P---y, Mr Ch---r of the Exc----r, Ld T-rc--l, and Mr W-n--m 452 to 455 Debate on the Call of the House and the Excife Scheme 455 - Rt's Motion to have the Excife Scheme laid before the Iloufe ib. F Mr Ch---r of the Ex---r's Reafons for deferring it Sir 456 Sir W---m W--db--mand Sir J---n B---d's Replies Mr P----m answers the Objection of a ib. D General 457 ib. E Debate in the Houfe of Lords upon the Mutiny Bill ib. H Speakers against keeping up fuch a Number of Quotations from Gulliver's Voyages A Warning to young Virgins To a Pert Lady---Damon and Delia---on a Lady's fantastical Tafte---the happy Lover's Invocation to Night---a Dialogue between Sly and Lovett 487 The Modern Goliab, addrefs'd to the Freethinkers---the defpairing Lover---Cupid at Bath 488 The Nymphs of the Thames--two Riddles anfwer'd---in praise of Virtue---the happy Pair an Ode of Anacreon On the Marriage of the Princess Royal 489 ib. 490 491 492-3 493 Speech of John Barber, Efq; Ld Mayor -- of Sir VVm Billers on his Election 494 Marriages and Deaths 494-5 ib. G Promotions. 496 It is defired that all Letters to the Author of this MAGAZINE may be directed to St JOHN'S GATE, in which Cafe they will always come to hand fooner than otherwife. Tuesday October 2. 1733. This Day is Publish'd, [PRICE THREE HALF PENCE.] The GENERAL EVENING POST. be continued every Tuesday, Thurfday, and Saturday; in which will be contain'd the best and freshest Account of all Foreign and Domeftick News, with whatever elfe Tth can render a News-Paper ufeful and Intelligent to the Publick. Printed for, and fold by J. Roberts in Warwick-Lane where Advertisements are taken in, alfe by Cefar Ward at the Ship between the Temple-Gates in Fleetfireet, London. THE Gentleman's Magazine: SEPTEMBER, 1733. PROCEEDINGS and DEBATES in laft Seffion of Parliament. EB. 21. the Penfion DEBATE on the Motion to take 500,000l. Feb. 23. The Houfe refolved itself into a Committee to confider of raifing the Supply granted to his Majefty. Sir RW, C----r of the Ex----r, ftood up, and fpoke in Subftance as follows: B Sir, Laft Seffion this Houfe came to a moft reasonable Refolution, to eafe the Landed Intereft of 1 s. in the Pound upon the Land C Tax, by granting in Lieu thereof a Duty on Salt for three Years. By this the Landed Intereft, which has many Years borne fo great a Share of the publick Expence, has in this laft found a moft fenfible Eafe; if any Method can be fallen on for continuing this Éafe, fuch Method ought certainly to be followed. As I had the Honour of moving for that Refo- D lution, the Approbation I then met with encourages me now to move for another, which I hope will be equally agreeable, viz. That it is the Opinion of this Committee, that towards Taifing the Supply granted to his Majefty, there be iffed and applied the Sum of 500,000l out of fuch Monies as have arisen for the Surplues, Exceffes or Overplus Monies, commonly called the Sinking Fund, over and and above what hath been applied to the Payment of one Million, towards difcharging the National Debt, pursuant to an Act of the laft Seffion." This Motion, I hope will meet with the Approbation of this Houfe; for it has always been my Opinion, and I believe every Man's, that the Publick Expence ought always to be raifed according to that Method which is the leaft burthenfome to the People: By this Method we fhall provide for a great part of the current Service of the Year without laying any Burthen whatever on the People, and without doing Injuftice to any Man. The Cafe of the Creditors of the Publick is now very much altered from what it was; the Competition among them is not now which of them fhall be firft, but which of them fhall be the laft paid; therefore Gentlemen need not now apprehend, that any of the publick Creditors will look upon the Houfe's agreeing to this Motion as an Injuftice done them: on the contrary they will look on it as a Favour, and would be glad that a much larger Part of that Fund were to be applied in the fame manner. And this Motion ought the rather to be agreed to, more efpecially by thole who have a Regard for the Landed Intereft, because we can thereby continue to the Landed Gentlemen that Eafe which we granted them laft Year; whereas if this Motion fhall appear not to be agreeable to the Committee, then I, or fome other Gentleman of this House, muft move for a Land Tax of 2s. in the Pound, there not being, fo far as I know, any other Way or Means left of providing for the current Service of the Year. Wm P--It--y, Efq;] Sir, Tho' I was aware of the Motion now made by the Hon. Gentleman, yet I was in hopes that what he has now moved for was not all that he was to open this Day to the Committee we are now in; and therefore I fhall conclude with a Motion of a different Kind. But, there is another Thing, a very terrible Affair impending, A monftrous Project! Yea more monftrous, than has ever yet been reprefented! It is fuch a Project, as has ftruck Terror into the Minds of moft Gentlemen within this Houfe, and into the Minds of ali Men with out Doors, who have any Regard to the Happinefs or to the Conftitution of their Country. I mean, that Monfter, the Excife! That Plan of Arbitrary Power, which is expected to be laid before this Houfe; therefore I am for having the Whole of that Gentleman's Defigns laid before this Committee at once, and a fufficient Time given to confider the Whole, before we come to a Refolution on any Part. Of late Years, Gentlemen have been led, I do not know how, into a Method very different from what our Ancestors did always obferve. In former Times the general or particular Grievances were firft examined, confidered, and redreffed in Parliament, before they entered upon the granting of Supplies; but lately we have been led into a Method of granting all the Money neceffary for the publick Service among the first Things we do. The Mait, Land-Tax Bill, and fuch Bills, are now in every Seffion the First things that appear upon the Journals of A this Houfe; and when thefe things are finished, the Gentlemen in the Adminiftration generally look on the whole Business of the Seffion to be over. If this House fhould then enter upon any difagreeable Enquiries into Grievances, we might then perhaps be told, that the Seafon was too far spent, that it was neceffary for Gentlemen to return home to mind their private Affairs; we might probably be obliged to defer to another Seffon what the Welfare of this Nation required to be determined in the prefent. Gentlemen will again begin to follow the wife Method obferved by our Ancestors, and keep fome Security in our own Hands for our fitting till we have heard and redres fed all the Grievances of our Fellow-Subjects. C hope, E B There are feveral things which we ought to examine into before this Seffion fhall be concluded. Does not every Gentleman expect an Application to be made to us from the South Sea Company? That Company has now made choice of a Set of honeft Proprietors to be the Directors of their Affairs; they are enquiring into the State of them and as they muft examine into the Management for fome time paft: they will fland in need of a Parliamentary Relief, and it ought to be D granted them.----The Hon. Gentleman addreffes himself in a very particular manner to the Landed Intereft; I hope every Gentleman in this Houfe has a Regard for the Landed Intereft; but I hope the Landed Gentlemen of this Houfe are not to be bullied into any Minifterial Jobs, by telling them, that if they do not agree to fuch a Motion, a Land Tax of 2.5. in the Pound must be moved for. I hope, Sir, the Landed Gentlemen will never be induced to confent to any thing that may undo the Nation, and overturn the Conftitution for fo finall a Bribe, as that of being free from the Payment of I s. in the Pound Land Tax, and for one Year only. The landed Gentlemen of this Nation have often ventured their All in their Country's Caufe, and it is an Indignity offered to them to imagine, that their paying or not paying fuch a Trifle as 1s. in the G Pound Land Tax will be of any Weight with them, when it comes in competition with the Welfare and the Happiness of their Country.---The Sinking Fund, that facred Depofit for extinguishing the Debts, and abolishing the Taxes which lie fo heavy on the Trade and the People of this Nation, ought never to be touched; It has of late been too often robbed; I beg pardon, Robbing is a harsh Word, I will not fay robbed; but upon feveral Occafions there have been confiderable Sums nipped away from it: Upon the Demife of his late Majefty a large Sum was taken from the Sinking Fund, and applied to the Civil Lift, by the taking off the Salt Duty another large yearly Sum was taken from it; the People are now again charged with that Duty, but no Reftitution has been made to the Sinking Fund. And now it is propofed to fnip off of it 500,cool at once. At this Rate the People of the Nation muft for ever groan under the Taxes they are now fubject to, and our Trade labour under Difficulties and Difcouragements. Is this, Sir, confiftent with the Welfare or Happiness of the Nation? Is this the Method by which the Landed Gentlemen are to be eafed of 1 s. in the Pound Land Tax? The Hon. Gentleman has been called, and once had the Vanity to call himself the Father of the Sinking Fund; but, if Solomon's Judgment was right, he, who is thus for dividing the Child, can never be deemed the true Father. But I fhall allow him the Honour of being the Father of two other ChilStanding Army and an Excife; but as for dren lately brought forth in this Nation, a the Sinking Fund, he feems now to renounce all Pretences of being the Father thereof. I fhall not now, Sir, enter further into the Merits of the Motion that the Hon. Gentleman has been pleafed to make, because I hope a proper Time will be allowed for Gentlemen to confider of a Question of fo great Confequence; therefore I conclude with a Motion for the Chairman to leave the Chair. Mr C---r of the E-r.] As for the Gentleman's faying I had the Vanity to call myfelf the Father of the Sinking Fund, I muft fay, that whether I was vain of being thought fo or no, I remember a Time when the Eftablishing of that Fund was treated as a monstrous Project, and then I was obliged to father it; but no fooner was it found out to be a good and a right thing, and a Projec that was both feasible and agreeable to the Intereft of this Nation, but other Gentlemen endeavoured to rob the real Father, whoever he was, of the Glory of being the Father of that Child. As for the other monstrous Projet fo much talked of, which fome Gentlemen now endeavour to fhew in fo terrible a Light, I doubt not but that in a little time it will appear in a quite different Shape to the impartial and unprejudiced Part of the Nation. Let it be what it will, I am refolved to propofe it; and if I have but a very little Time, I fhall lay it before you for your Confideration: I have no Doubt but that upon a thorough Examination, it will be found ro be for the general Interest of the Nation, and for the Advantage of every fair Trader in particular; and this I am fo much convinced of, that I believe I may live to have it told me I was not the Father of it, but that other People had thought of it before me. I never as yet inclined to do that which I thought was ill; I am afraid of of doing fo; but I never fhall be afraid of doing Good either to my Country, or to private private Men, fo far as is confiftent with the Intereft of my Country. As for the Sums which have been taken from the Civil Lift they were not taken from it by me, they were taken from it by the Authority of this Houfe; I was only one of thofe who confented to it; and particularly as to the Sum which was taken from the Sinking Fund upon the Demife of the late King, and given to the Civil Lift, the Hon. Gentleman who fits near me agreed to it as well as I, but our Motives for agreeing were perhaps very different.---The Sinking Fund was established for Payment of the Debts of the Nation, but ftill it was left fubje&t to Difpofal of B Parliament; if upon any Occafion it shall appear that a Part of it may be more properly applied to some other Úfe, the LegiDature has certainly a Power to apply it in that manner which they fhall judge to be moft for the publick Good, and for the Intereft of the Nation in general. This is the proper Question now under our Confideration; we are now to determine, Whether the Sum of 500,000l. fhall be applied this Year towards the Eafe of the Landed Intereft, where it is abfolutely neceffary to give fome Relief, or, if the Whole fhall be this Year applied towards the Payment of the Publick Creditors who do not fo much as with or defire it. This is the plain State of the Queftion; and I could hardly have expected that it would bave ftood a Debate. terity, and the Question now before us is, Whether we shall give a prefent Eafe to the Landed Intereft of 1 s. in the Pound Land Tax, by unjufily loading our Pofterity with the Payment of 500,000l. and the Intereft thereof from this prefent Year? or, Whether we shall conA tinue to pay the Is. in the Pound Land Tax, and thereby free the Nation of a Debt of 500,000l. and our felves and Pofterity of a new Debt of 20,000l. which must be yearly incurred for the Payment of the Interest upon that Debt, till the principal Sum be fatisfied and paid? This is the Queftion before us, and whoever confiders it in this Light, must conclude, that what is propofed, is robbing of our Pofterity of 500,000l. and the growing Intereft thereof, for the Sake of a trifling prefent Eafe to ourfelves. If the Landed, or any Intereft, could be relieved by reducing the publick Expence, it would redound to the Glory of him who had the Honour of being the Author thereof; but to eafe ourselves by loading our Pofterity, is a poor temporary Expedient of fhort-fighted or felf-intérested Politicians, and the Author of fuch an Expedient muft expect the Curfes of Pofterity, and can never expect prefent Thanks from any but fuch as are as fhort-fighted, or as felfinterested as himfelf.----I hope, I shall not now be taxed with affecting Popularity, or with fpeaking Provincially, or as a Member for the City of London, as I have often been on other Occafions; for as to the prefent Question, I confider it entirely in a National View. As a Member of this Houfe I fhall always look upon myfelf as one of the Reprefentatives of the People of Great Britain, and I hope every Gentleman who C D Sir J-n B----d.] Sir, As to the Project which the Hon. Gentleman feems to be afraid of being robbed of the Glory of, I believe he may be very eafy in that refpect; for my part I am fo far from believing, that when it E appears in Publick, it will procure either Honour or Glory to the first Projector, whoever he be, that I am firmly convinced it will turn out to be his eternal Shame and Dishonour, and that the more the Project is examined, and the Confequences confidered, the more the Projector will be hated and defpifed.---As to the Queftion now before it affords me a moft melancholy Confiderati us, on; I own, that the Landed Intereft, as well as every other Intereft,ftands very much in need of Relief; I allow that by what the Gentleman now proposes, the Landed Intereft may meet with fome immediate Eafe, and I will likewife eafily grant, that it may in our prefent Circumstances be agreeable to the Creditors of the Publick; but, while I have the Honour to be a Member of this House, I am not to confider the immediate Eafe of the Landed Intereft in particular, nor the prefent Pleasure of the publick Creditors;---- I am to confider the Welfare of the Nation in general, both as to the prefent, and as to future Times; and as I am convinced that what is now propofed will in the long run be contrary to the Intereft of the Nation in general, therefore declare my Diffent. ---In all Affairs which come before this House, we are to have a due Regard to Pof(Gent. Mag. Vol. 3. No. xxxiii.) F G H has the Honour of being a Member of this Houfe, will always do the fame. I hope it will never be in the Power of any Man to make the Landed Interest range themselves in Oppofition to the trading Intereft of this Nation; but if ever fuch a wicked Defign fhould take Effect, if the Members of this House should ever be brought to talk and to vote provincially, or as Members for Cities or Boroughs, or Members for Counties; if the former were to join together against the latter, it is eafy to determine on which fide the Majority would be. The Hon. Gentleman who made the Motion, now feems to aim at the Affectation of Popularity among the Landed Gentlemen; this I am really furprized at, confidering how often he has taxed me, and other Gentlemen in this Houfe, with Affectation of Popularity as a moft heinous Crime.----The Creditors of the Publick are, perhaps, at prefent unwilling to be paid off, becaufe they have a greater Interest for their Money from the Publick, than they can have any where elfe; this is one, but no the principal Reafon for it; for the chief Reafon is, the Method and Manner of paying them: If a confiderable Part of their Debts were to be paid at once, and a reasonable Notice given of fuch Payments being to H be 450 PROCEEDINGS in laft Seffions of Parliament. B be made, they could then difpofe of their Money to as good an Advantage for themfelves, and much more to the Advantage of the Trade of this Nation; but in the prefent Method the Payments are fo fmall, and the Warning fo fhort, that many of them do not A well know how to difpofe of the fmall Sums they receive, and therefore are unwilling to receive any in that manner: However their Inclinations be, it is certainly the Interest of the Nation to have them foon all paid off, and therefore no Part of what is appropriated to their Payment, ought to be converted to any other Ufe: Their Unwillingness to receive Payment is fo far from being an Argument against paying them, that on the contrary it fhews, that they have a better Bargain from the Publick than they can in the fame way have from any other Perfon; and therefore, if it were poffible to borrow Money at a lower Intereft; if it were poffible to add to the Sinking Fund, the Publick ought certainly to do it, in order to pay off thofe who are now Creditors of the Publick at fo high a yearly Intereft.----I hope it will be thought that I am fincere in what I fay, fince I am in every refpe&t talking against my own private Intereft; I have a Part of my Eftate in Land, and therefore ought to be for reducing that Tax; I have another Part of my Eftate in the Publick Funds; and confequently I ought to be as fond as other Men of not being paid off, and having as high an Intereft as I can poffibly get from the Publick; and the remaining Part of my Eftate I have in Trade, as to which alfo I fpeak against my own Intereft; for as a Trader I ought to be against paying off the Publick Funds, becaufe the Intereft of Money will be thereby reduced; and though it may feem a Paradox, yet it is certain, that the higher the Intereft of Money is in any Country, the greater Profit the private Trader will always make: In a Country where the Intereft of Money is high, the Traders will F be but few, the general Stock in Trade will be but fmall, but every Man who is a Trader must make a great Profit of what Money he has in Trade. J---phi D--n--rs, Efq;] I am fo far from feeing any Inconvenience in what the Hon. Gentleman has propofed, that, confidering how little Occafion there is at prefent for paying off any of the Publick Debts, I am Turprized at his Modefty in asking fo little from the Sinking Fund; for, if he had asked the Whole, it would have been reasonable for us to have given it him, fince it is for the Support of a Government under which we enjoy fo many Bleffings, more particularly that of the free Exercife of our holy Religion. The Landed Gentlemen bore the greatest Share of the late War; by that they have been loaded with many heavy Taxes; by that were all thofe Funds created out of which the Plumb Men of the City of London have made most of their Eftates, by which they D E G H are enabled to deck their Wives in Velves and rich Brocades, while poor Country Gentlemen are hardly able to afford their Wives a Gown of Lindfey Woolfey. The Landed Diftrefs, and therefore we ought to embrace Intereft has long laboured under the greatest every Opportunity of giving them Relief. Sir Wm W----m,] I have the Honour to fit in this Houfe as a Knight of a Shire, yet I look on myself as one of the Reprefentatives of the whole Body of the People of vour to find out a Diftinction between the England, and therefore I fhall never endeaIntereft of the Landed Gentlemen, and that of the Nation in general; whoever does endeavour it, will foon find himself difappointed. For know that fince laft Seffion of Parliament it has been moft industriously given about in the County which I have the Honour to Shire was against eafing you of 15. in the Pound reprefent; 0 Gentlemen! The Knight of your Tax Land. If it was done with this Defign to do me a Differvice, I fhall leave those who did it, to brag of their Succefs. I am fo confcious that my Behaviour in that Affair then was right, that were I to plead Merit with my Conftituents upon any one upon my Way of voting in that very Affair; Vote I ever gave in this House, it would be for I fhall always be againft facrificing the publick Happiness of the Nation, or the Security of our Conftitution, to any fuch mean and fordid View, as that of a little prefent Eafe in the Land Tax.--- The Sinking Fund, is a Fund I have always had the greatpriated to the relieving the Nation from that eft Veneration for; I look on it, as approLoad of Debts and Taxes it now groans under; I take it, to be fo abfolutely appropriated to that Ufe, that if upon any preffing and unlooked for Emergency, we fhould be neceffarily obliged to borrow a little from it, the fame with Intereft ought to be reI have indeed been always afraid that fome paid by fome Tax to be raised within the Year. enterprizing Minifter might be tempted to feize upon it, or fome Part of it, in time of War; but I little dreamt of feeing any Attempts made upon it in a time of the moft profound Tranquillity. It is to me a melancholy Confideration to think of the prelions Sterling and upwards! all contracted fent vaft Load of the National Debt; 45 Milfince the Revolution! This must be a melancholy Confideration to every Gentleman that has any Concern for his Country's Happinefs; but if the Motion now made to us hall be agreed to, how difmal will this Confideration be rendered, when we reflect upbe of this Debt's being ever paid? Is the Pubon the little Appearance that there will then lick Expence never to be leffened? Are the People of England always to pay the fame heavy and grievous Taxes? Surely, if there is ever a Time to be looked for of eafing the People of this Nation, the Prefent is the! |