must

it was to be taken as a pledge of what he was to do afterwards, in respect to another measure with which it had no connexion. Upon that measure he would act as he had always acted. He would consult his conscience, and do what he considered best to be done. What he might now do, or what he might have done before, should have no binding obligation on his mind, as to what he should do when the question to which the noble lord had alluded should come under the notice of the House. But this much he would say, that, having devoted many serious moments to that question for the last thirty years, he did not yet see any thing to induce him to think that his former opinion was wrong. At the same time, he should keep himself perfectly free to act as his conscience might subsequently dictate; when the period was arrived he would do his duty. He did not vote for the bill, in consequence of the past conduct of the Catholics, but because the principle on which the Association was founded was dangerous and unconstitutional.

Lord Dudley and Ward said, he rose with considerable reluctance, in consequence of his general views upon the question, to support a measure directed against the Catholic Association, whose conduct, however reprehensible in itself, was easily to be accounted for, by the painful and trying circumstances in which they were placed. It was for their lordships to consider what might be their own conduct under an order of things which should place them in a similar situation-not for any crime they had committed, nor as the authors of any dangerous innovation; but because they had adhered to the religion of their ancestors, and had not received that great light which, after the darkness of a thousand years, had broken forth on the christian world. If any one of their lordships thought that, under such circumstances, he ought not to feel any irritation or discontent, but that he should bow with submission and kiss the rod, that noble lord, undoubtedly, might vote for this measure without regret. But in his view, who thought that the Catholic question ought to pass as soon as possible, and that the Catholics were placed in a situation most trying to their loyalty, he was not disposed to scan their faults too nicely, and felt that some indulgence ought to be extended towards them. But then, there was a certain point where indulgence

VOL. XII.

stop-when danger began to appear; and it must be admitted that this Associa tion had assumed a dangerous aspect. It set up a government against the government, a parliament against the parliament, and a revenue againt the revenue. He did not mean to say that there was rebellion in its acts, but there was rebellion in its tendency. It was the machinery of a rebellion, for the time when the occasion might arrive. The government that would be intimidated by them would deserve to be overturned. Those who were at the head of this Association appeared to be able and intrepid men, and they might, perhaps, hate parliament for doing their duty; but, it was better that they should do that, than be taught to despise them for neglecting it. It became their lordships, without any regard to consequences, to pursue the course which duty dictated. This Association was founded on political principles of the most mischievous description, and was capable, at any moment, of forming dangerous and extensive connections. They assembled for the evident -indeed, the almost avowed purpose-of compelling the government to act as they dictated. An institution of this sort, which was established, not for any ordinary political purpose, nor for any great moral object, ought to be watched with a jealous eye. It was because he was the sincere friend of Catholic emancipation, that he wished the Association to be effectually put down. There were two ways by which the Roman Catholics might endeavour to attain their ends-the one by resorting to force, the other by adopting the language of persuasion. If force were hinted at, he should be surprised if the Protestant peers of that House did not resist any such proceeding; if persuasion were adop, ted, he thought the representations of the Catholic body ought to be seriously attended to; but he certainly wished that the Catholic Association should be put down -that the very name and recollection of that body should be abolished. So long as it existed, it would be cited as a specious plea against carrying the great measure of emancipation. He wished to see the Roman Catholics in possession of perfect political freedom; but he did not think it right that they should have a sort of government of their own, and political heads of their own. The Roman Catholics always had, and always should have, his voice in favour of their claims; but he trusted they would not adhere to

3 P

The Earl of Roden said, that he, as well as many of his friends, could bear witness to the violent proceedings of the Catholic Association during the last twelve months. They had erected an imperium in imperio, and lorded it over the whole Catholic population of every part of the country. Could any thing be more objectionable than their levying a tax on the people?He said "levying a tax," because, however it might be said, that the sums collected were voluntary offerings, he believed that, in many instances, the money was taken from individuals who were unwilling to subscribe; and not only that, but from persons who actually disapproved of the measures of the Catholic Association. The noble viscount who moved, and the noble lord who seconded, the address, on the first day of the session, had very justly described the mischiefs which were to be apprehended from this Association. Those noble lords must have known, as he himself well knew, the fever which the Assso ciation had excited throughout Ireland amongst the Catholics and Protestants during the last year. That body had been the means of fomenting jealousies, misunderstandings, and angry feelings between them; and therefore it was fitting, that such an instrument of mischief should not be suffered to exist. He knew of no good that it had effected, and he was quite sure that if it were suffered to go on, it would produce the most baneful effects. True it was, that the Association had put forth addresses, cautioning the people against becoming Ribbonmen, and imploring them to remain in a state of tranquillity; but, lest the people should take their advice, they, in the same breath, reminded them of "the hatred they bore to Orangemen." It was impressed upon their minds, too, that they were slavesdegraded and disgraced persons, to whom no meed of justice was extended. The Catholic population certainly suffered under the disabilities of the penal code, yet he would venture to say, that there were no peasantry in the world more free, or who would more rejoice in a participation in the blessings of the constitution, or be more anxious to acknowledge the boons they had received from parliament during the last two or three years, if they were permitted to do so, by those per

the best interests of his country; and he spoke the honest conviction of his mind, when he declared that, in his opinion, this Association ought to be put down. He would not attempt to inquire what were the specific objects of the Association? And he would rather, if possible, think that much which they had done, and much which they had spoken, arose from irritation of feeling, ardency of mind, and from that warmth which mixed itself up with debate. But he would say, that, whatever their objects were, the evils which arose out of their proceedings were precisely the same. The ill effects produced by their speeches and manifestoes, on those who heard and read them, were just the same. A noble lord had told them; that if the Association were left alone, it would sink into nothing. It had been left alone; and, what was the consequence? Why, it had gone on increasing in numbers, and consequently in the power of doing mischief. He was glad that the present bill had been introduced; because it afforded the means of putting down all political societies-whether Orange societies, or Catholic societies. But, when he coupled them together, he must take the liberty to say, that they were very different in their nature and object. He thought, however, the time had gone by when Orange societies ought to exist; and he wished to see all political associations, be they what they might, put down, as well as all those annual processions which grew out of them. Whether the bill would completely effect this object, he could not say. With regard to the Orange societies, he thought it would; and with regard to Catholic societies, he was sure, if the people listened to the advice of those respectable noblemen, whom no person could mention without praise-lords Fingall, Gormanstown, Killeen, and others-the measure, with reference to them also, would produce the contemplated effect. As to the agitators of Ireland-that body which had excited so much angry feeling-of them he would say,

"Hi motus animorum atque hæc certamina tanta, Pulveris exigui jactu, compressa quiescent."

The Earl of Darnley contended, that the Catholics of Ireland were justified in using the best means within their power for the restoration of their civil rights. The noble earl had spoken in flattering terms of the situation of the peasantry of

cation to kill game was most absurd. To be qualified to kill game, a man must have an estate of inheritance, in his own or his wife's right, of the yearly value of 100%., or an estate for the term of ninety years, of the annual value of 150l. Those were the two principal qualifications: but, there was another curious mode of qualification, derived, not from any thing belonging to the person himself, but from the accident of birth. The eldest sons only of esquires, and persons of higher rank, were allowed the privilege of shooting. He proposed to remove all qualifications, the only effect of which was, to engender ill blood, and to give to every person who held land a property in the game which was on it, and a power to prevent any person from destroying it. He apprehended there would be no more difficulty in making game property, than fish in a river which ran through several estates. He certainly did not propose to make the taking of game a felony; but, there were many articles well protected by the laws, which it was not a felony to steal. He did not believe that the change in the law which he projected would increase the number of shooters. If the bill should pass, it would be necessary for an individual, after taking out a licence he must go to the expense of that to have the means of shooting. Under the existing system, many persons went out to kill game, who had no right to do so, and took the chance of being found out. When it was considered, that, according to the provisions of his bill, a person who went out to shoot must first purchase a certificate, and would in the next place be liable, if he were found shooting on another person's land without his consent, to be taken before a magistrate, he thought there was ground for presuming that the number of shooters would be much diminished. The great objection which was urged against the bill last year was, that it would have the effect of destroying fox-hunting-that was to say, that farmers and other small landholders, having property in the game on their land, would find it their interest to kill the foxes. But, when it was recollected, that foxes were generally to be found only in great woods and preserves, where they might be protected by those who thought it worth their while to preserve them, he did not think that that objection was entitled to much weight. He should, indeed, be sorry to do any thing to the prejudice of fox-hunting, which he

considered a most manly and truly English sport. Another objection to the bill was, that it would render game so common in the market, that country gentlemen would soon give up all idea of sporting. He did not believe that. For his own part, he could say, that he did not feel less pleasure in shooting woodcock or wild fowl, or catching a fish, because he could buy such animals in the next town. After declaring, that all the objections made to the bill were quite threadbare, he concluded by moving the second reading of it.

Sir J. Brydges said, that the present bill, as it seemed to him, instead of checking poaching, would go to encourage it. All that the poacher wanted was a free vent for his plunder, which this measure of the hon. member for Yorkshire went precisely to afford him. He was decidedly opposed to the bill, as far as regarded its effect upon the preservation of game; and not the less so, because it added a new felony to the Statute-book, in making night poaching a transportable offence. Under these circumstances, he should move, "that the bill be read a second time this day six months."

Mr. Lockhart was surprised how any one could think that the measure before the House was calculated for the preserv ation of game.

The effect of the bill would be, by making every land-owner a legal dealer in game, to render the small farmer's house a constant resort for poachers, and the man himself an agent for the sale of their commodity. He should have no objection to support a proposition for extending the existing scheme of qualifi cation; but, for the bill of the hon. mem. ber, he thought it would create more crime than it would prevent. With respect to the right of preserving game, he thought it quite unreasonable that gentlemen should be asked to resign any right or property, purely because there existed, on the part of some persons, a disposition to violate or destroy it. He should certainly support the amendment.

Mr. Secretary Peel said, it was his intention to vote for the proposition of his hon. friend, the member for Yorkshire. When he looked to the antiquity of the game laws, and considered the great changes which had taken place with reference to that species of property, he could not but entertain a strong suspicion, that those laws required alteration. He con ceived that there was no one circumstance