their lives and property. He did not approve of such a practice; but, as he was only opposing the use of spring-guns for the preservation of game, if any noble lord would frame a clause to except spring guns used for the purpose which had been described to him, he should have no objection to the insertion of that clause in

the committee.

The bill was read a second time.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, March 4.

thus on the one hand, the whole amount of expense was stated; and on the other, the probable amount of debts to be received: the one item was then deducted from the other, and the difference formed the estimate. It so happened, that in the present year there was a diminution of 11,000l. in the expense; but the expected amount of subscription from the cadets had diminished in a still greater degree. On the army pay of general officers there was a diminution of 17,6471. The garrisons were nearly the same as last year, The full pay for retired officers was diARMY ESTIMATES.] The House having minished by casualties 3,442. The half resolved itself into a committee of supply, pay in the same way, 38,8441. Foreign Lord Palmerston rose to bring forward half pay was less than last year by the Army Estimates for the year. In 1,550. In-pensioners of Chelsea and Kilrising to state to the House the nature of mainham Hospitals, 4271.—a small differthe supply at present demanded, he said, ence, arising chiefly in the price of prohe should begin by pointing out the dif- visions. On the out-pensioners of Chelsea ference between the items of the last and Hospital, there was an increase of 21,495l. those of the present year. The total in- On the military Asylum, 970l. The crease of force for the year 1825 was widows' pensions had increased 4,1187; the 8,923 rank and file, exclusive of officers, compassionate list, bounty warrants, and at a charge of 229,6844. At the head of pensions for wounds, were nearly the same the estimate, title "land forces," the ad- as in the last year; the superannuation dition seemed to be 11,920 rank and file; had increased, within a trifle, 2,8001. and, but this was counterbalanced by several on the veteran battalions, as they were to reductions which he would presently state. be reduced, there was a saving of 73,5381. Upon the item of "staff," there was no-It now became necessary for him to exmaterial alteration-a small sum of 828., plain the grounds upon which this increase merely, arising from the transfer to that of force was asked: and next, the manner department of some new expenses, in the in which it was proposed to be effected. public departments there was an increase Upon the first point, he had, at least, this of 1,880. The House would probably advantage-it could not now be urged by be aware, that the duty of examining the the advocates of reduction, that the adaccounts of all the regiments of Ireland, ditional military force demanded was and also of all accounts connected with wanted to terrify or coerce the country. the militia, had been transferred from the In England, he saw nothing but prosperity, audit to which they originally belonged. and confidence between the government It would be easily conceived, that this and the people; and, even in the less transfer had occasioned a considerable in favoured region of Ireland, there appeared crease of business in the office to which rays of brighter omen than parliament had it had come. He had endeavoured to been accustomed to. In dropping this provide for it by internal arrangements, observation, he by no means alluded to the and hoped still to be able to do so; but vote which had passed the House a few business of that description involved a nights since. He trusted that that vote great deal more labour when it first came had already gone forth through the eminto new hands, than it would do after-pire, as a harbinger of peace; and believed wards. In the article of medicines there was an increase of 1,0781.; in the volunteer corps, a decrease of 6,0387.; in the recruiting troops and companies of regiments in India, an increase of 7,080l. The next item was the Military College; upon this there was an increase of 1,768/. in the vote, but there was a considerable diminu-provements which had taken place in the tion in point of actual charge. The esti- state of Ireland justified him in saying, mate as to the Military College was prepared that there was nothing in the aspect of that

that its principle, if carried into full effect, would do more than thousands of soldiers could ever do to maintain tranquillity in Ireland: but, in what he now said, he meant to point merely at those symptoms which had been apparent when the estimates were made; and the general im

He

country, which ought to weigh in favour feeling which carried him forward was one of extending our military force. The of a paramount description: it rendered grounds, indeed, upon which this increase him superior to all considerations of forof military establishment was meditated tune, of personal convenience, of death. were purely external. It might be a fair But, the case was widely different, when, question of speculation, perhaps, how far after going through the dangers and it was for the benefit of a country to fatigues of a twenty years' war, the same possess colonies-whether it was better man was sent to consume the rest of his that she should confine herself to com- days in a pestilential climate, and on a merce and improvement at home, or form duty which was unpleasing to him. It settlements abroad; but there could be no was hard to tell brave officers who had doubt as to the course which ought to be fought through field after field, in a propursued by a country, having already in tracted contest, and whose names would its possession such colonies as belonged to be found in every legend which recorded England. As far as civilization extended the victories of England-it was hard to in the world-from the most northern tell such men, that they must be doomed, point in America, to the southernmost now their country was at peace, to end extremity of Asia-the formation of Bri- their lives in some remote colony, compatish settlements, and the accumulation of red to the service in which, their former British wealth, was to be found. To aban- perils formed an enviable condition. don possessions gained at the cost of so was quite sure the House would go along much blood and treasure-many of them with him upon this subject. The service important outposts for the protection of of these obscure and distant stations was our commerce, and the security of our ten times more trying, both to the mind dominion-would be a violation of public and the bodily strength of an officer, than faith, and a forfeiture of national honour. the severest labours which could be imIn estimating the amount of force necessary posed upon him in a European campaign. for the service of our colonies at present, There was the climate wasting his life and it was impossible to be guided by the force strength; the mere formal duties, with which had been sufficient for us in any our existing establishment, extremely haformer period of peace. It was not only rassing and constant; and, what, was still requisite that adequate garrisons should more galling, there was not the smallest be provided for every station, but it was hope of acquiring distinction. He did also necessary, that we should have a sur- trust that the House would feel, that this plus force, in order that we might have was a state of things which ought not to the means of sending reinforcements, from continue; and that, while it was but their time to time, to places at which they might duty to place at the disposal of governbe called for. In the present state of our ment the means of properly defending army this could not be done. It was almost our colonies, they ought also, for the sake impossible, with such means, to furnish of our brave soldiers, to furnish the means strength for the ordinary duties. But of relieving our foreign garrisons at a reinforcing any where could only be ac- proper time, and, what was scarcely less complished by abstracting the troops important, at a proper season always of wanted from the garrison of some other the year.-Assuming, therefore, that such place; and, on a recent occasion, when obligations as these did exist, he would the East-India Company had been com- next proceed to the question, how the ne pelled to desire a reinforcement of 5,000 cessary increase of force was to be raised? men, there had been no means at all There were three modes of doing the of complying with that demand, but by thing. First, it was possible to add a stopping five regiments which were under certain number of rank and file to the orders for England, and which had already existing establishment of each regiment. been on foreign service more than twen- Secondly, new regiments might be raised, ty years. And this fact led him to an- of the same calibre as those already exother consideration, which was, that the isting. Lastly (and this was the course colonial service of a country like England proposed to be adopted), new companies ought not to be converted into a perpetual-not merely fresh rank and file-might be banishment for all who were employed in it. When a man entered the army, he devoted his health, his hopes, his prospects, to the service of his country. The

added to the regiments already existing. Now, the first plan would have been the cheapest, because there would have been no increase of officers above the rank of sub

on

alterns. But the objection was this the | vidual, better able to support the climate country would not then have obtained at or the service. Here would be a great home such a disposable reserve as was neces- advantage gained to officers; for they sary to make proper arrangements for re- would not be compelled, as now, lief. The second plan would have been free sudden emergencies, to exchange to halffrom this objection as to relief; but then it pay; and the soldiers, too, who were would have been too expensive, from the invalided from foreign service, and were great cost of staff appointments and regi- now discharged altogether on their arrival mental allowances. The last plan combined in England, might, many of them, become the advantages of cheapness, with the pro- perfectly effective at the dépôt for home duction of a disposable force; and he would duties, and the training of recruits. Upon shortly describe the detail by which it was the whole, it was his clear opinion, that an to be carried into execution. The army increase of military establishment upon the was formed at present of battalions of eight principle now proposed, would not only be companies: the strength of each battalion useful as assuring all convenience to the being 576 rank and file. It was now country during peace, but become a valuintended to add two companies, so making able frame to hang a larger force upon in each battalion consist of ten; and these case of war.-He now came to the subject ten companies were to be divided into two of the Veteran Battalions-a force which it distinct classes of force. Six companies was intended to disband altogether. It were to form what would be the service was one of the conditions upon which battalion, and these would consist of 86 pensions were granted to soldiers, that men each; the other four companies they should be forthcoming always for would be the battalion of reserve, or of garrison or veteran battalions, whenever dépôt, and would amount only to 224 men the Crown thought fit to call upon them. altogether. Thus, when the regiment When the veteran battalions now emwas at home, the whole would be con- bodied had been called out in the year sidered as one battalion, and quartered 1821, nobody had supposed that the together; but when it was ordered on necessity for keeping them together could service, only the six strong companies have been of long continuance. It was would go abroad; the other four remain- now between three and four years that ing at home to recruit, and to provide these men had been embodied; and the for casualties. In this way, the garrisons House would probably think that governabroad would be made more effective than ment had entertained a proper feeling they were at present; because there was upon the subject, when he declared that it necessarily a heavy delay, under the was determined to disband them. The existing system, after any casualty oc- doing this was, of course, to be considered curred, before reinforcements could be not as a matter of regret, but as an act sent out. Troops had, at present, what- of grace: but it was thought right, after so ever the emergency was, to be raised and many years of service, to let them retire disciplined. This occupied a long time; to their homes, to enjoy in peace the moand, before one casualty was provided for, derate pensions which the justice and the another had occurred. But, the reserve gratitude of their country had afforded them. companies would afford a fund, always If it should be found necessary again to ready in case of necessity, from which assemble them in arms, the present indraughts could be made, subject to none dulgence would not lessen their alacrity to of the delays which hampered us under obey the call. The grounds, then, on which the existing arrangement. This alteration the present increase was called for, was would also materially assist the business the service of the colonies; and he begged of relief. At present, when an officer distinctly, that it might not be supposed, abroad was sent home by a medical cer- that in seeking such an addition to its tificate, the commander-in-chief could military strength, government had the only grant him a limited leave of ab- least reason to apprehend a breach of sence, because his duty pressed hard, those friendly relations which subsisted in the mean time, on those who were between England and other powers. It left behind him. But, under the pro- would be obvious, indeed, that with any posed system, nothing could be more view to war, such an increase as that proeasy than to station an officer so situated posed must be entirely inadequate; but, at once with the dépôt battalion; and to at the same time, the House would be send out in his place some other indi- aware, that the success of this country in VOL. XII. 30

of numerical strength, for the protection of the place. This he conceived was a risk which ought not to be hazarded. Was it possible that we could permit the occupation of Spain by the French troops? Was it possible that we should suffer our ally Portugal to be menaced, for its disposition to adopt a constitutional form of government? We had recently taken an important step, which must lead to the speedy recognition of the South American states. Recent news had informed us, that the genius of Bolivar, aided by the bravery of his troops, had succeeded in putting an end to the power of Spain in South America. The steps to which this would lead would cause great heart-burnings in particular quarters. Exigencies would arise which we ought to be prepared to meet. He would therefore give his vote for the augmentation of the army.

Mr. Secretary Peel said, it was unfair to infer from the thin state of the House, that the absent members were neglectful of their duty. The fair inference was, that they were fully sensible of the reason ableness of the vote, and that it would not be opposed in that way which might require their personal attendance. From the speech of the gallant general who spoke last, it was evident that an increase of force was required. The gallant general had borne fair and honourable testimony, as a military man and a man of honour, to the situation of the garrison of Gibraltar, and had stated his opinion, that it would not be for the interest of the army that it should continue in its present inefficient state. When the House heard, from such a competent judge, that this was the situation of the only garrison which he had visited, it was fair to assume, that similar defects existed in our other foreign possessions, and that an increase was required in most of them.

Mr. Calcraft said, that, looking at the situation in which we stood, he thought that government ought to be put in possession of an effectual disposable force. And he therefore fully concurred in the vote.

Mr. Bernal believed there were circumstances in the state of the world, which justified the proposed augmentation. He was happy in bearing testimony to the commander-in-chief's great attention to the health and comfort of the soldiers in the West Indies.

Mr. Hutchinson said, that when he saw the country burthened with upwards

of 800 millions of debt, and petitions pouring in for a reduction of our ex penditure, he could not vote for the addition of a single soldier on the ground of a confidence in ministers. He therefore opposed the resolution, and for nearly the same reasons on which his gallant friend had supported it. He was unwilling to cramp the energies of our army; but he could not consent to an augmentation of our armed force, unless a case of absolute necessity were made out. If ministers had called for the increase, for the purpose of opposing the Holy Alliance, he would most willingly vote away the last shilling of the country. But, no such object was avowed; and he saw no necessity for the augmentation, in any other point of view.

Sir A. Hope supported the motion, and defended the plan proposed for the future regulation of the troops to be sent to the colonies.

General Gascoyne thought that a better mode of relieving regiments upon foreign service might be devised, than that of relieving them by companies.

Mr. M. Fitzgerald approved of the proposed augmentation, to the army, and would leave the details of it with perfect confidence to the Secretary at War. He had understood from several military officers, that many of our stations were very inadequately garrisoned. That was a state of things which ought not to continue. Though we were now at peace, our fortresses should be prepared for war. So far was he from considering the present an unconstitutional augmentation of the army, that he had regretted many of the reductions which had taken place.

Lord Palmerston wished to explain a misconception which seemed to prevail as to reliefs. His gallant friend seemed to think, that the system of relief by regiments was abandoned, and that the only relief was to be by the interchange of the officers of the same regiment. This was by no means the case. The regimental exchanges would be carried on as at present, with the addition of these dépôt companies, which would set the members of each regiment sooner at large. The gallant officer would see, that it would relieve individuals much sooner than the system which was now in vogue.

Sir R. Wilson begged to ask, whether there would be any objection to follow the same system towards wounded which was now followed towards half-pay offi