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the disappointment expressed at not finding the tobacco and brandy duties still further reduced, for the better prevention of smuggling. He was glad at the reduction of duties on hemp and iron. Though he did not anticipate so great a reduction in the duty of the latter, yet he, who was largely interested in that trade, was not afraid of the foreign competition. He was a warm advocate of liberal commercial principles.

held out that, in the present year, the West-India interest would be better considered; and yet what was now proposed?-merely to reduce the rum duty 2s. a gallon, while, at the same time, the reduction in home spirits was to be 5s. a gallon. When they wanted to repress the smuggling trade, why not begin upon tobacco, the great article of notoriously contraband consumption? If they reduced the tax upon tobacco one half, the revenue would not be diminished, but smuggling would, to two-thirds of its pre-tary establishment which was still to be sent extent. It was said, that in the coffee reduction 150,000l. was conceded to the colonial interests. He admitted the importance of this reduction to the negro population; but denied its being a proper equivalent for the injuries which had been generally inflicted on the WestIndia trade.

Mr. W. Smith said, he would put in his claim for a future hearing on this subject, as the House was not at that moment properly prepared for the discussion.

Colonel Davies said, that the House would, to-morrow week, have an opportunity of considering the tobacco and other duties, in consequence of a motion of which he had given notice. He was not without hopes, that the chancellor of the Exchequer would carry his admirable principles further into practical operation, and still further diminish the public taxa

tion.

Mr. Hobhouse thought it would have been better to have equalized the wine duties, than have made them in the proportion as six to four; and he was quite sure the country would not be satisfied with his inadequate reduction of the assessed taxes. The sinking fund on the present plan was, he thought, quite ridiculous.

Mr. John Smith thought the sinking fund essential to the maintenance of the national faith and honour. The WestIndia interests had been exceedingly oppressed; and he thought that a reduction of the duties upon sugar would have a very beneficial operation.

Mr. Hart Davis complained that the tobacco duties were not reduced. They now amounted to 1,200 per cent upon the original value of the article. He had expected a reduction of one half at least of these duties. Notwithstanding the very great export from America, the revenue in this article was not improved.

Mr. Alderman Thompson concurred in

Mr. Hume noticed the immense mili

gave

kept up. It amounted to 17 millions, including the miscellaneous estimates; 15 millions and a half being for the army, navy, and ordnance. In 1816, they were told they had not yet come to the full reduction of their peace establishment; and yet they had been going on increasing the amount every year since. He entirely concurred in the opinion that they would never make an impression upon smuggling, and reduce the expense of the preventive service, until they diminished the tobacco and brandy duties. As to the general commercial principles upon which the right hon. gentleman had acted, he him the fullest credit for their utility and liberality, and only wished him to carry them further. He must also say, that the promise held out to the West-India interests had not been redeemed. It was a breach of faith to the colonies not to put them upon a comparative footing with the general home trade. He was struck with two facts in the right hon. gentleman's statement that whilst the general increase of the revenue amounted to 15 per cent upon some articles, and averaged 5 per cent on the greater number, yet that in the malt and tobacco duties the increase was only at the rate of 34 per cent. He was quite persuaded that if the right hon. gentleman made the reduction in these articles 50 per cent, he would, out of the increased consumption, preserve a revenue equal to the present, and at the same time save an enormous expense to prevent smuggling. The sinking fund was at present quite a delusion, and he would, in a few days, demonstrate that fact to the House.

Mr. Huskisson said, it was a subject of much congratulation to his right hon. friend, to find the praise bestowed, from all sides of the House, upon the commercial principles on which he was acting, and the reduction of the public burthens which he had at the same time afforded. He was

gentleman a consideration, which would not injure the labouring population, but would be deemed by the West Indians as a bonus which they would gladly accept? Mr. H. Vivian, referring to the reduction on foreign iron, wished to have such an equivalent, in the way of duty, for the produce of the Cornish mines, as would reimburse them for the difference of charges caused by taxation at home.

Sir C. Forbes was astonished, amidst all the reductions on articles of foreign growth and produce, that no reduction had been proposed on East-India commodities.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply to the suggestions of the hon. member for Rochester, wished to give a reason why he did not conceive rum entitled to an equal reduction with British spirits. The price of grain, from the natural operation of the corn laws, put the distiller under a necessity of paying a price for his malt, beyond that which he would have to pay if there were no such restrictions. In rum, the first material was not subject to that specific charge. The prime cost of the malt spirit was so much more than rum, that the latter article could more easily bear 8s. per gallon than the former could 5s. He professed himself, however, to be in no wise wedded to his own opinion; nor did he offer these propositions as if they could admit of no qualification. On the contrary, he courted the animadversions of members, on the introduction of the resolutions which it would be his duty to submit to the House.

The several resolutions were agreed to.

HOUSE OF LORD S.

Tuesday, March 1.

MINING SPECULATIONS.] Earl Grosvenor rose, to address their lordships, on the subject of some reports which had been circulated respecting himself. Their lordships were aware, that there were numerous Mining speculations afloat, which might be attended with ruinous consequences to many; and which, to the individual who had then the honour to address their lordships, had already occasioned some unpleasant circumstances. While he was in the country, he had been told, that it was confidently reported that he had made, by speculations in the mining projects, a sum of 60,000l. or 80,000l. He had positively denied this; but had met with persons who still gave credit to the report. When he came to town he found

that the 60,000l. or 80,000l. had swelled to 160,000l.; which was totally false. He had mentioned the circumstance to the learned lord on the woolsack; and had stated, that he had no dealings whatever in any such speculations. Notwithstanding this, the report had gone on augmenting; and it had since been confidently reported, that he had cleared between 300,000l. and 400,000l. As such reports might lead incautious persons to speculate, it was the more necessary for him to guard them against it, by denying the truth of them. He had not engaged in any of these speculations, nor in speculations of any kind, for many years past. He thought it the more necessary to state what he had stated, because he was not unfriendly to bonâ fide speculations of the kind alluded to. When such speculations were honestly and properly conducted they might be a great advantage both to the individual and the public. When Englishmen carried their surplus capital, their talents and ingenuity, to other countries, they carried with them those moral feelings, and that energy of enterprise, which distinguished their countrymen; and they thereby promoted her advantage, by making her better known. He had found it necessary to say this much, to guard against its being supposed that he was inimical to bonâ fide speculations.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Tuesday, March 1.

LONDON WATER COMPANY BILL.] On the motion of Mr. Buxton, that the bill be now read a second time,

Mr. W. Williams moved, that it be read a second time that day six months, and referred the House to the report made by the committeee into the conduct of Water Companies, three or four years ago; he was happy to see the chairman of that committee in his place.

Mr. Fremantle said, that having been personally alluded to, he felt it necessary to say a few words. When he went into that committee, he was of opinion, that the conduct of the Water companies was extremely wrong: he thought they abused the public, and obtained too great a profit on their capital; but, after six weeks close investigation, he found he was wrong; that there was a plentiful supply of good water at a cheap rate; and that while the expense and risk were enormous, the profits were too small. There was no

capital in Europe better supplied with good water, and at a cheaper rate, than London. He thought that competition would be injurious rather than beneficial to the public, and therefore he should oppose the bill.

Mr. F. Buxton thought, that any measure, which had for its object the supply of good water at a cheap rate, could not be injurious to the public. An increase of population was the ground upon which a new Water company was established in 1810. That was an equally good ground at present; for in the fourteen years which have elapsed, there had been a proportionate increase of the population. A great deal had been said on the advantages and disadvantages of competition; and, although it was admitted to be beneficial to the public in all other undertakings, it was contended that in that most important necessary of life, water, it was prejudicial. The fact was this; that when, in 1810, competition among the Water companies began, the price of water fell 25 per cent; whereas, in 1815, when competition ceased, the price rose to the same amount. The hon. member then noticed the case of a schoolmaster at Stratford, who had been recently compelled to pay 200 per cent above the sum he formerly paid, merely because he had ventured to remonstrate against an advance of 100 per cent.

Mr. T. Wilson contended, that it was not fair to quote a particular instance as a proof of a general proposition. He was of opinion that competition was injurious in the cases both of Water and Gas companies. He therefore should resist the further progress of the bill.

The House divided: Ayes 69; Noes 30: Majority for the second reading 39.

CALL OF THE HOUSE.] Mr. Brougham moved, that the order of the day be complied with, and that the House be called over.

The Speaker said, there was no order of the day for calling over the House, but there was an order that every member should be in his place on this occasion. A difficulty would arise as to what was a strict compliance with that order. According to the letter, any attendance during the evening would be an attendance in fulfilment of the order. According to the spirit, the attendance must be on the subject of the hon. baronet's (sir F. Burdett's) motion. Under these cirVOL. XII.

cumstances if, early in the day, defaulters were proceeded against with severity, a member might be punished without committing an offence, according to the strict letter of the order. The spirit of the order had reference to the particular object which would become the subject of discussion before the House. The course generally pursued was, to call over the list of defaulters from time to time. That list had been already called over three times, and was very considerably diminished. It might be as well to call it over again, and to dot off those who were now absent; leaving it to the House to determine what ought to be done when the case of each particular defaulter was brought before it.

The list of absentees was then called over again.

ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS-PETITION OF JOHN KIRBY.] Mr. Brownlow, in rising to present to the House a petition which he considered to be of great importance, begged to say, he had not the slightest wish to delay the consideration of that subject, which the hon. baronet, the member for Westminster, was about to bring before the House. It was a petition which came to him from the county of Kerry, at the close of the last session, and he could not conceive why it was placed in his hands. He had, however, employed himself during the vacation in examining its allegations, and found they were too well justified by the truth, to be passed by without consideration. It was the petition of John Kirby, an individual who had for fourteen years been a schoolmaster at Blenner-Ville, in the county of Kerry, and who had conducted himself, as appeared by the certificate of a parish priest annexed, in so exemplary a manner, as at one time to call forth the friendship and admiration of all his neighbours. The Hibernian School society had opened a school, of which the petitioner was appointed schoolmaster, in consequence of his good character. That school had not been opened many weeks, before there was a numerous attendance of scholars, and upwards of one hundred children were sent to it by their parents. In a short time after, the rev. John Quill, the coadjutor of the parish priest, called upon the petitioner, and told him to desist from teaching any more; alleging, that his system of instruction would tend to make the children Protest3 C

gentleman a consideration, which would not injure the labouring population, but would be deemed by the West Indians as a bonus which they would gladly accept? Mr. H. Vivian, referring to the reduction on foreign iron, wished to have such an equivalent, in the way of duty, for the produce of the Cornish mines, as would reimburse them for the difference of charges caused by taxation at home.

Sir C. Forbes was astonished, amidst all the reductions on articles of foreign growth and produce, that no reduction had been proposed on East-India commodities.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in reply to the suggestions of the hon. member for Rochester, wished to give a reason why he did not conceive rum entitled to an equal reduction with British spirits. The price of grain, from the natural operation of the corn laws, put the distiller under a necessity of paying a price for his malt, beyond that which he would have to pay if there were no such restrictions. In rum, the first material was not subject to that specific charge. The prime cost of the malt spirit was so much more than rum, that the latter article could more easily bear 8s. per gallon than the former could 5s. He professed himself, however, to be in no wise wedded to his own opinion; nor did he offer these propositions as if they could admit of no qualification. On the contrary, he courted the animadversions of members, on the introduction of the resolutions which it would be his duty to submit to the House.

The several resolutions were agreed to.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Tuesday, March 1.

MINING SPECULATIONS.] Earl Grosvenor rose, to address their lordships, on the subject of some reports which had been circulated respecting himself. Their lordships were aware, that there were numerous Mining speculations afloat, which might be attended with ruinous consequences to many; and which, to the individual who had then the honour to address their lordships, had already occasioned some unpleasant circumstances. While he was in the country, he had been told, that it was confidently reported that he had made, by speculations in the mining projects, a sum of 60,000l. or 80,000l. He had positively denied this; but had met with persons who still gave credit to the report. When he came to town he found

that the 60,0007. or 80,0002. had swelled to 160,000l.; which was totally false. He had mentioned the circumstance to the learned lord on the woolsack; and had stated, that he had no dealings whatever in any such speculations. Notwithstanding this, the report had gone on augmenting; and it had since been confidently reported, that he had cleared between 300,000l. and 400,000l. As such reports might lead incautious persons to speculate, it was the more necessary for him to guard them against it, by denying the truth of them. He had not engaged in any of these speculations, nor in speculations of any kind, for many years past. He thought it the more necessary to state what he had stated, because he was not unfriendly to bonâ fide speculations of the kind alluded to. When such speculations were honestly and properly conducted they might be a great advantage both to the individual and the public. When Englishmen carried their surplus capital, their talents and ingenuity, to other countries, they carried with them those moral feelings, and that energy of enterprise, which distinguished their countrymen; and they thereby promoted her advantage, by making her better known. He had found it necessary to say this much, to guard against its being supposed that he was inimical to bonâ fide speculations.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Tuesday, March 1.

LONDON WATER COMPANY BILL.] On the motion of Mr. Buxton, that the bill be now read a second time,

Mr. W. Williams moved, that it be read a second time that day six months, and referred the House to the report made by the committeee into the conduct of Water Companies, three or four years ago; he was happy to see the chairman of that committee in his place.

Mr. Fremantle said, that having been personally alluded to, he felt it necessary to say a few words. When he went into that committee, he was of opinion, that the conduct of the Water companies was extremely wrong: he thought they abused the public, and obtained too great a profit on their capital; but, after six weeks close investigation, he found he was wrong; that there was a plentiful supply of good water at a cheap rate; and that while the expense and risk were enormous, the profits were too small. There was no

capital in Europe better supplied with good water, and at a cheaper rate, than London. He thought that competition would be injurious rather than beneficial to the public, and therefore he should oppose the bill.

Mr. F. Buxton thought, that any measure, which had for its object the supply of good water at a cheap rate, could not be injurious to the public. An increase of population was the ground upon which a new Water company was established in 1810. That was an equally good ground at present; for in the fourteen years which have elapsed, there had been a proportionate increase of the population. A great deal had been said on the advantages and disadvantages of competition; and, although it was admitted to be beneficial to the public in all other undertakings, it was contended that in that most important necessary of life, water, it was prejudicial. The fact was this; that when, in 1810, competition among the Water companies began, the price of water fell 25 per cent; whereas, in 1815, when competition ceased, the price rose to the same amount. The hon. member then noticed the case of a schoolmaster at Stratford, who had been recently compelled to pay 200 per cent above the sum he formerly paid, merely because he had ventured to remonstrate against an advance of 100 per cent.

Mr. T. Wilson contended, that it was not fair to quote a particular instance as a proof of a general proposition. He was of opinion that competition was injurious in the cases both of Water and Gas companies. He therefore should resist the further progress of the bill.

The House divided: Ayes 69; Noes 30: Majority for the second reading 39.

CALL OF THE HOUSE.] Mr. Brougham moved, that the order of the day be complied with, and that the House be called over.

The Speaker said, there was no order of the day for calling over the House, but there was an order that every member should be in his place on this occasion. A difficulty would arise as to what was a strict compliance with that order. According to the letter, any attendance during the evening would be an attendance in fulfilment of the order. According to the spirit, the attendance must be on the subject of the hon. baronet's (sir F. Burdett's) motion. Under these cirVOL. XII.

The

cumstances if, early in the day, defaulters were proceeded against with severity, a member might be punished without committing an offence, according to the strict letter of the order. The spirit of the order had reference to the particular object which would become the subject of discussion before the House. course generally pursued was, to call over the list of defaulters from time to time. That list had been already called over three times, and was very considerably diminished. It might be as well to call it over again, and to dot off those who were now absent; leaving it to the House to determine what ought to be done when the case of each particular defaulter was brought before it.

The list of absentees was then called over again.

ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS-PETITION OF JOHN KIRBY.] Mr. Brownlow, in rising to present to the House a petition which he considered to be of great importance, begged to say, he had not the slightest wish to delay the consideration of that subject, which the hon. baronet, the member for Westminster, was about to bring before the House. It was a petition which came to him from the county of Kerry, at the close of the last session, and he could not conceive why it was placed in his hands. He had, however, employed himself during the vacation in examining its allegations, and found they were too well justified by the truth, to be passed by without consideration. It was the petition of John Kirby, an individual who had for fourteen years been a schoolmaster at Blenner-Ville, in the county of Kerry, and who had conducted himself, as appeared by the certificate of a parish priest annexed, in so exemplary a manner, as at one time to call forth the friendship and admiration of all his neighbours. The Hibernian School society had opened a school, of which the petitioner was appointed schoolmaster, in consequence of his good character. That school had not been opened many weeks, before there was a numerous attendance of scholars, and upwards of one hundred children were sent to it by their parents. In a short time after, the rev. John Quill, the coadjutor of the parish priest, called upon the petitioner, and told him to desist from teaching any more; alleging, that his system of instruction would tend to make the children Protest3 C

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