your characters, on your state in society, on your known love of your country, to make you do so." Why, if these were the qualities among the Catholics which ministers looked for, and depended upon, in the name of Heaven, would they not do better to treat with such qualities upon some footing of conciliation? This was the course by which ministers might dissolve the Catholic Association. By some pledge given to the Catholics of Ireland that their case should be fairly, actively, seriously discussed, and immediately. Let such a pledge as that come only from authority, and the Catholic Association, in spite of all the leaders in the world, was extinct. It would melt away of itself, dissolve, and no power on earth would either keep it together or be able to reproduce it. Let the House be sure that the Catholics of Ireland would see their own interest too clearly not to attend to such a proposition. Honourable gentlemen talked of apprehending ulterior views; and one hon. baronet had thanked a right hon. gentleman for his assurance that, in every measure contemplated on behalf of the Catholics, the safety of the established Church would be amply provided for. Why the security of the established Church lay in the grant of the Catholic claims-its fullest, and almost its only security. The Catholics themselves wished to take that very view, and no other of the subject. He believed in his heart, that if the tithes of Ireland were offered to the Catholic clergy to-morrow, they would have too much good sense, too much knowledge of their own interest, to accept them; and in saying this, he only gave them credit for knowing their own interests better than to wish to stand in the shoes of a clergy who were maintained by such an unfortunate mode of provision. There were some other circumstances, than those which had yet been adverted to, which should induce the House to consider well at what time, as well as in what manner, they were acting. Feeling, as he did, much anxiety for the present political condition of Ireland, that anxiety was further increased by a reference to what was going on upon the continent. Perhaps there were some among the opponents of Catholic emancipation who would think he was now advancing an argument in their favour; but he did confess that he looked with great jealousy at the increasing religious zeal now visible in foreign Catholic countries. He thought he saw in the breast of the present Pope, an intention, which all despotic govern ments would be ready enough to assist, to revive, as far as possible, in the present day, that commanding influence which the Catholic Church had formerly exercised over the great mass of society. That there existed a disposition, and a strong one, in the Court of France to do this was undoubted; and it would not be very difficult to give that disposition an influ ence in Ireland. If the Catholic faith was to be denounced in England; if the Catholics of Ireland-for this was the doctrine of some gentlemen-were to be shut out for ever; if they could only be safely admitted to their rights, and this were plainly told them, by ceasing to be Catholics, was there nothing to be apprehended from the inflammatory paragraphs with which the papers of the continent were filled, characterising England peculiarly as the country of intolerance, and telling her to look at Ireland, when she talked of having given liberty to the world? The ultra newspapers of France spoke out "England dares not go to war, for Ireland is a magazine of gunpowder, which a single spark would explode upon her bands." Was it supposed that these newspapers did not reach, or that they were not understood by the Irish Catholics? After all that this country had done to re-establish in France the throne of the Bourbons, he doubted whether that House would not be more ready to tamper with the population of Ireland than the government which we had overthrown. He believed that Napoleon Buonaparte would never have stirred up a religious war; but he was far from entertaining the same opinion with respect to the present reigning family. In fact, there stood the inflammatory declarations he alluded to: the French papers were full of them. It was by no means unlikely that an attempt might be made to organize an Irish brigade once more in France; for the courage and fidelity of the old force of that description, the House of Bourbon would not have forgotten. And, what was the remedy against all this? The remedy was clear the declarations of Ireland herself plainly indicated it. The people of Ireland said to this country-" We value the franchise of your constitution beyond every other advantage. All we ask is to be included in it-to enjoy that which, under it you all enjoy yourselves." If they thought otherwise than this, they needed not be long without getting rid of flammatory than that employed by the all necessity for urging the question of Catholic Association; but still that fact Catholic claims. And, if the measure would hardly justify a bill which was to before the House was carried, what prac-limit the liberty of discussion. Once more tical advantage would be gained from it? he would ask, what was to be gained by He did not mean to enter into any justifi- the bill, supposing it to pass? If the cation of particular expressions: in oppo- House did cut off the head of one Assosing a bill like the present, he was not ciation-" non deficit alter." The exisbound to do so; but he desired to cor- ting society might be put down; but what rect an error which had been made with was gained if a variety of smaller ones respect to his observation on a former immediately arose, having the same end evening-that, to understand some of the and object precisely in view, and extendphrases charged against the Catholic As- ing themselves through every county or sociation properly, it was necessary that a parish throughout the country? There man should be an Irishman. What he was much complaint as to the intemperate had meant, and still meant, to say, was language used: but the bill would not prethis, with reference to the expression vent a set of Irish gentlemen from meet"By the hate you bear to Orangemen," ing at dinner, nor could the House think it was hardly possible for a man, who was that their speeches would be more temnot a native of Ireland, to understand theperate after dinner than before it. state of parties in that country. Gen- Colonel Trench said, that instead of tlemen did not know they could not occupying the time of the House with feel the rooted hatred which the Catho- any observations of his own, he would lics of Ireland bore to the Orange party, read a catalogue of what had been done and the Orange party to the Catholics- for the improvement of Ireland within for the aversion was mutual. This was a few years; and on the other hand he the fact which became material, and by would shew, by way of contrast, the which he had intended to explain the conduct of the Association. He would word "hate," as contained in the address then leave it to the gentlemen of Eng of the Association. There was no inten- land to decide whether this Association tion to awaken hatred in the expression ought not to be put down. He would -"By the hate you bear to Orangemen:" rather that they should decide the questhe allusion was to that hatred which tion than those who were, like himself, every man who was to read the address connected with Ireland. All that parliaknew already existed. This very feeling ment could do had been done. The main was breaking out in bloodshed whenever evils of Ireland were not within the reach the population were left to themselves; of legislation; but the legislature had and the charge was, "By the existence sown the seeds of happiness, peace, and even of that feeling, we conjure you to tranquillity, from which might be expected avoid such acts of criminal violence." a harvest of comfort and contentment. And, after all, if a little indiscreet lan- But the baneful and counteracting inguage had been used, was not the same fluence employed was equally clear. The mistake frequently occurring in that very good would have been felt but for the House? A late noble marquis (Lon- blighting influence of the Association, led donderry) had said, in speaking of the on by the ambitious views of individuals Catholic question, that he would rather who would be sorry to see peace in Irehave a good Catholic, than a bad Protes- land. The first benefit, he had to point tant, as a member of the House. The out was, the new organization and better bad Protestant meant a Protestant who establishment of the sheriffs in Ireland. thought, he (Mr. M. Fitzgerald) appre- The right administration of the law had hended, as he had the honour to think been enforced. The next benefit was himself; and certainly he was inclined to the improvement of the Customs and Exdoubt himself if such Protestants did not aise. This had been felt in the remotest argue questions like the present, more part of Ireland. Another benefit was the hotly, sometimes, than the Catholics total repeal of the Assessed taxes. The would do themselves. If the language, all Distillery laws had in the same way been of it, were examined, which had been modified and improved, by which smugused in the course of the debate on the gling was repressed, and young men who had present measure, perhaps a good deal lived in hostility to the government were of it would be found even more in-rendered sober and industrious. Manu at the favourable view which had just been taken of the condition of Ireland, especially when he recollected the very different opinion which had been given on the same subject no longer ago than last year. The hon. gentleman then proceeded to say, that the opinion of the great body of the people of England had become changed on the subject of the Catholic question. It was now generally admitted, that a man might be of a different religion from the great body, and yet be capable of enjoying all his civil rights. In the very populous town which he had the honour to represent, all feeling of illiberality on the score of religion had, in a very great degree, declined. He remembered a time when those who supported the Catholic question were not only unpopular in the town of Hull, but were in some personal danger; but now, he not only professed him. self favourable to the Catholics of Ireland, but a decided advocate for their claims; and he was certain that at the next elec tion he should not find one enemy on that ground. The fact was, the eyes of the people were opened. They were becoming every day more enlightened, and saw the absurdity and injustice of depriving any man of his civil privileges on account of his religious opinions. It was impossible to look at this measure in any other light, than as an attempt to put down the Catholic Association, without reference to any other society. Was there any one who atetmpted to argue it on any other ground? It was true, the Association might be put down; but would the bill have the effect of repressing the spirit of the Catholics of Ireland? Whatever might be its immediate effects, he was satisfied it would, in the result, do more harm than good. With respect to the Association itself, it must be considered as growing out of the state of the public mind in Ireland, on the subject of the Catholic question. As to the mode in which they should be treated, he would suggest factures, too, had been introduced, and the education of the people promoted. He lamented that impediments were thrown in the way of education, by the injudicious zeal of those who would accompany it with their tenets and peculiar doctrines. If education merely, without any religious interference, were encouraged, it would produce the greatest blessings to that country. The tithe-commutation was another great benefit. Those who were against the peace of Ireland, were against a measure calculated to reconcile the Protestant clergy with the population. The reform of the magistracy was an important benefit, for local prejudices often rendered magistrates unable to fufil their several duties. The Catholic clergy, he was of opinion, ought to be paid by the government, and liberally paid. But there were some things of the utmost importance to Ireland, which the government could not effect; such as moderate rents, forbearance in exacting them, and decent habitations. Now, what had the Catholic Association done to counteract these advantages? They collected what they called Rent, and all who did not contribute to it were held up to the execration of the country. The Catholic Association had unbounded influence over the poorer classes. The great leader of the Association, one who knew well the disposition of the people, had characterized them as warm, enthusiastic, brave, generous, easily impressed, and easily excited. What must the House think of the effect upon such a people of vehement declamation on their insulted and degraded state? They might well be supposed to be rendered desirous of risking any thing for a change. With regard to the language which had been held at the meetings of the Association, and in its addresses, it was said that single passages were select ed. It would not be difficult to point out, however, many others quite as objectionable as those which had already been read to the House. The hon. member then quoted several passages from the documents of the Catholic Association; and concluded by saying, that the question of Catholic claims ought, in his opinion, to be referred entirely to the country gentlemen of England; and that the eloquence with which those claims had been supported, ought not to deter them from that course which they esteemed to be their duty. Mr. Sykes expressed his astonishment "Be to their virtues very kind, Be to their faults a little blind." Coercion, such as this bill proposed, would be wholly ineffectual. Mr. Grenfell wished to explain an observation which he made on this subject the other night, and which seemed to have been wholly misunderstood. He had said, after hearing the statement of the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, that if this Association interfered with the administration of justice, it ought not to 2 R Folkestone, visc. Hutchinson, hon. C. Scott, J. H. be suffered to exist, and he would give rence. The House divided: For the second reading of the Bill, 253; For the Amendment 107; Majority, 146. List of the Minority. H. James, W. Talbot, R. W. Townshend, lord C. Whitbread, S. C. Whitbread, W. H. Wood, M. Wilson, sir R. Wyvill, M. TELLERS. Nugent, lord HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, February 22. ST. CATHARINE'S DOCKS BILL.] Mr. Grenfell moved the second reading of this bill. Mr. Calvert said, he would, at a proper time, object to gentlemen who were inCavendish, lord G. A. terested in the measure giving their votes in favour of it. Never was a bill brought. into the House in so barefaced a manner as that of last year. Persons holding. shares to the amount of 50,000/. had voted for it. He would move, "That the bill be read a second time this day six months." Cavendish, C. Evans, W. Fergusson, sir R. Fitzgerald, rt, hon. M. Mr. Manning saw no necessity for these docks. The London Dock afforded suffi cient accommodation to the commercial world, and if more were required, they could furnish it. Mr. Wallace supported the bill. The parties wanted no exclusive advantages.. Sir R Fergusson said, there was not an out-port in the country which did not, with good reason, complain of the accommodation in the London docks. He saw no possible objection to the bill. They had not brought forward the measure lightly. It had undergone the most mature consideration. It was fit, that, in a great commercial country, there should be competition in undertakings of this description. Accommodation of the best kind should be given to merchantvessels, and that would be best obtained by open competition. Why should the London Dock Company have a monopoly? The fact was, that those who opposed the bill were afraid of losing the gains which they realized by a monopoly. Sir J. Yorke said, he would advise gentlemen to keep their money against a rainy day, instead of trying to ruin each other by embarking in all sorts of projects. He wished to give every protection to the mercantile marine of this country, but be thought there was sufficient dock-room already. When he saw the number of bills which were called for, he felt that there was a clashing of interests, which was likly to end in the ruin of different parties. There were companies of all descriptions: companies to bring salt water from Brighton, and air from Bognor companies to "bring airs from Heaven, and blasts from Hell." When he saw this, he fell back on his own resources, on the principles of his own unconquered mind, and seriously asked himself, whether the gentlemen who thus employed their capital were in the right. In his opinion they were not; and therefore he should oppose the bill. Mr. Sumner thought that competition was a very good thing; and had no doubt that if the proposed docks were laid aside, the existing companies would raise their prices. Mr. Grenfell said, that the only opposition to the measure had proceeded from those who were interested in the present dock companies. Mr. Monck objected, not to the principle of the bill, but to the particular place selected for the erection of the docks. The parish contained 8 or 10,000 persons, who were chiefly employed in the lighters on the river, and they would be deeply injured if it were carried into effect. He objected also to the sacrilegious exhumation of the ashes of the dead, which must be a consequence of it. Alderman Thompson said, that a large number of the inhabitants had consented to the measure, and almost the whole body of merchants and ship owners were unanimously in favour of it. Alderman Heygate said, there was at present as much competition as was advantageous without any new docks. Mr. Ellis said, he was instructed from Dublin, the merchants of which port had not at present sufficient accommodation in the London Docks, to support the bill. The House divided: for the second reading, 118: against it, 30. COUNTY TRANSFER of Land BILL.] Mr. Fyshe Palmer rose to move for leave to bring in a bill to empower magistrates at quarter sessions to effect Exchanges between counties of insulated Parcels of Land, for the more convenient adminis tration of justice. To provide a remedy for the inconvenience and perplexity which resulted from having certain parcels, of land belonging to particular counties situated at a considerable distance from those counties, was the object of his bill. The best method of prevailing upon persons to apply a remedy was, to prove the existence of the evil. That he would endeavour to do, by stating a few short facts. In the first place he would remind the House that Holy Island, which lay off the coast of Northumberland, did not, as one would naturally suppose from the situation, belong to that county, but to the county palatine of Durham. Another place belonging to Durham, called Crake, was situated in the centre of Yorkshire, fifty miles from the courts of the county of which it was called a part. Its inhabitants voted for members of Parliament for the county of Durham, whilst the assessments for land were made in, and men were raised and embodied for, Yorkshire. In the same way a part of Derbyshire was to be found in Leicestershire: and a part of Huntingdonshire in Bedfordshire. From the town of Oakingham, a tract of land belonging to Wiltshire ran into Berkshire, for about four miles in length. It was, in some places, two miles in breadth, and in others not half a mile; and there was no notorious mark by which the boundaries of the two counties could be defined. In like manner Swallowfield, East, and Swallowfield West, both belonging to Wiltshire, were situated in Berk shire. He had the authority of all the magistrates on the Oakingham bench for |