committee, and it could stand no longer? If an administration could not be found, without admitting a portion of liberal feeling, was it not unfortunate that they who possessed that feeling should have succumbed to the other that the enlightened part should have submitted to the dark, and allowed the darkness to overspread the land? He lamented this the more, as the parties who were thus joined without being united, differed not only in political, but in moral feeling, on questions of vital importance to the country. He lamented that this unnatural junction should have caused the government to stand still, as it were, on a question where the interests of millions were concerned. The feeling which could keep men together in such an administration, must be, no doubt, one of pure patriotism-an ardent devotion to the interests of their country. The two right hon. gentlemen opposite had devoted themselves for the public good. Their sacrifice was greater than that of the Decii of old; for there, only one consul immolated himself, but here there were two [cheers]. A line, it had been said, was drawn in the cabinet on this important question. It was, as was observed by the right hon. Secretary, a serpentine line, drawn by the master hand in that body. With painters, that serpentine line might be the line of beauty; but with moralists, the direct line was the line of integrity [hear, hear]. The differences in the administration upon the Catholic and other important questions were extraordinary, when viewed as emanating from men joined in the same government. What one did, his colleague was anxious to undo. They acted without any settled rule or order, and the only thing for which they could claim distinction, was their disunion on those questions in which, of all others, they should be united. Nothing that he had seen or read could be compared with this system, or want of system, except that which the greatest of our poets gave as a description of chaos "where eldest Night Of endless wars, and by confusion stand. Strive here for mastery, and to battle bring He rules a moment; Chaos umpire sits, Would it not appear as if the cabinet had of the right hon. member opposite (Mr. making. He had heard the sentiments V. Fitzgerald). What ground was now left of most of the hon. members who had defor him to proceed upon? He had com-livered their opinions on this subject, and plained of the tampering with the adminis- he could not refrain from expressing his tration of justice. How was this com- surprise, that any friend of the general plaint borne out by the fact? It was question should support the motion before most distinctly proved, that the proceed- the House. The right hon. Secretary for ings of the Association, in every prosecu- Foreign Affairs, and the learned Attorneytion they had instituted, were conducted general for Ireland, had both as friends to with great good temper and moderation. the Catholics, expressed their anxiety to This was admitted by the judges appointed get rid of the Association as an incubus to try the cases; and the agents of the upon the Catholic cause. He would ask Association were on many occasions com- the right hon. gentleman, where he could plimented on the subject. But, did the have dwelt, to be ignorant of the sentiments House expect that the Catholics could of the Irish people in that respect? Was quietly continue under the load of ca- it possible that Glocester-lodge was so lumnies which had been so unsparingly secluded from the world as to be imperheaped upon them by the Orangemen ? vious to what was passing in it on so imporWere they to make no effort to prove to tant a question? Had he dwelt in such the country that they had been most unjustly Cimmerian darkness, as not to see that assailed? Suppose the Orangemen were which was visible to all other persons in allowed to proceed without any check, the country? If he had, let his darkness would it not be believed that the charges be lightened by his right hon. and learned made against the Catholics were well friend the Attorney-general for Ireland, founded? So much calumny had been who had stated the fact, that the Associa heaped upon the Catholics-so great was tion owed its origin to the confidence of the prejudice excited against them-that the Irish people. Was it not strange that any thing which attacked their character such a difference should exist between would be received by certain parties with two members of the same cabinet on a fact out hesitation. If a man were to state so notorious? He would wish to impress that his pocket was picked in walking upon the House that this was not an through St. Giles's, no person would Irish question. It was an English one. doubt him, because a belief existed that It applied as much to meetings in Yorksuch a circumstance was not unlikely to shire as to those in Dublin. Its influence happen; but the statement might never- would be felt in one part of the empire as theless be wholly unfounded. It was the well as in the other. The object was, to misfortune of the Catholics of Ireland, put down certain Associations; but the that any thing which was stated to their Catholic Association was particularly prejudice received implicit belief; because aimed at. Why condemn this Associacalumny had represented them as capable tion as illegal? Was it so in itself, or of the worst actions. Thus situated it was it so in its acts? An Association was natural that the Catholics should en- might be legal, and its acts illegal. A deavour to repel the calumny, by bring-legal assembly might be guilty of illegal ing the cases where it was thrown out fully before the public. This course they adopted, and by the prosecutions which they instituted before the tribunals of justice, they proved the fallacy of the charges which had been made against them. What would have been thought if all the letters which had been published with the signature of a gentleman named Harcourt Lees had been attributed to the whole body of Orangemen? Would not such statements call forth some explanation from those who were attacked in them? With respect to the general question of the Catholic claims, he congratulated the liberal portion of the country on the progress it had made, and was daily acts. Now, on which of those grounds was this society objectionable? The Attorney-general for Ireland had never attempted to disturb it on the ground of its illegality, but he had tried it by the acts of one of its members; and a jury of the country had declared, by their verdict, that there was no ground for the charge. On what ground, then, was it attempted to be put down? On the ground of its illegal tendency-on the ground that it might have an injurious effect hereafter? This was nonsense. It was a childish tampering with the liberty of the subject, which no liberal policy should ever countenance. The act, it was said, would be only temporary. That might or might not be the case; and if the Catholics were not guided by a more sound judgment than that which directed the cabinet of England, a temporary act would not be sufficient, upon the principles which the proposed bill avowed. But, from his knowledge of the Catholics of Ireland, he had no fear on this point. The zeal and earnestness with which the leaders of the body had endeavoured to preserve the peace of the country were notorious; and that they had been successful could not with justice be denied. The Attorney-general for Ireland had borne testimony to the exemplary conduct of the Catholic priesthood, and to their active and useful exertions in maintaining the tranquillity of Ireland. That statement was, certainly, not in accordance with the declaration of the hon. member for Derry (Mr. Dawson), of another hon. member (Mr. Brownlow), whom he must consider as the representatives of the Orange party; but he would rather rely upon the statement of the Attorney-general who, from his situation, must best know the acts of all parties in that country, and he had given public testimony to the very valuable services of the Catholic priests, in preserving the peace of Ireland. With respect to the Attorney-general himself he would say, that if he ever could have had a doubt-which he never had-of his sincerity in advocating the claims of his Catholic countrymen, they would have been removed by his manly conduct the other night. That, would have left him convinced, that the Catholics of Ireland had not among their supporters a more zealous able and sincere friend [hear, hear]. It was well observed by the hon. member for Galway, who so manfully opposed the present measure, and who, absit invidia, had taken a more statesman-like view of it than any member of his majesty's cabinet, that it would have the effect of irritating the feelings of his very sensitive countrymen. But, if the views taken by the hon. member for Galway were thus correct and laudable, those taken by his majesty's ministers were of a character quite the reverse. The language which they had used in stating those views, was any thing but the language of wise and able statesmen. They said, forsooth, that they would not allow themselves to be bullied into granting the Catholic claims. To be bullied into doing an act of justice! Such language was as contemptible as the Men must feeling which dictated it. wonder how so paltry, so miserable and, so absurd a feeling could enter into the mind of a man of such eminent acquirements as the hon. and learned Attorneygeneral for Ireland; and still more must they wonder how, upon such a feeling, he could think of being a party to introduce into parliament a measure, which, from the excitation it was certain to produce among the Catholic population of Ireland, might be attended with consequences which he would not mention, and on which he dared not to reflectwhich would be more prejudicial to the safety, honour, and welfare of the empire, even than the loss of the American colonies [hear; hear!]. That disastrous event, which had plucked the brightest jewel out of the Crown of England, had cast an ineffaceable stain on its hitherto unspotted reputation, and had lopped off a limb from the body politic, which he should ever consider of inestimable value to it, in spite of all the metaphysical efforts of political economists to reconcile the nation to its loss by representing it as mean and worthless. Deeply did he lament the separation of the north American colonies from the mother country; but, evil as that separation was-evil as was the long and bloody contest into which the country was unnecessarily plunged by the last war-evil as were the consequences which arose at the close of that war from the unwise policy of ministers, who tamely abandoned all the advantages they had obtained-evil as all the events he had mentioned were to the empire, still they would be as dust in the balance, when compared with the evil which would arise from producing a war of rebellion in Ireland cheers]. He recollected, and he would recall to the recollection of gentlemen who still took some delight in the studies of their early life, an anecdote very apposite to this point, and indicating in very strong colours the difference which existed between the policy of a wise and powerful and magnanimous nation, and that, of such feeble and temporizing statesmen as those with whom the right hon. and learned gentleman was associated: he alluded to an event which occurred at an early period of Roman history. The Romans having conquered the Privernates, imposed upon them the colonial yoke, which the Privernates at a subsequent period endeavoured to shake off by war. They were, empire at large; and he conjured them, by all those qualities, to give a dispassionate examination to the claims of the Catholics, whenever they should be regularly brought under their notice and consideration. however, speedily subdued by the Roman arms; and one of their delegates having been brought into the Roman senate according to the custom of that people, was asked what punishment he thought ought to be inflicted upon those who had rebelled so audaciously as his countrymen There was also another sentiment in had done? His reply was worthy of the which he agreed with the hon. member character of a man who sought to obtain for Galway. The hon. member had freedom he said, "We deserve to suffer stated, that though he agreed with the such punishment as those ought to suffer, Catholic Association in many points, he whose only crime has been a wish to se- had attempted to dissuade it from intrustcure to themselves the privileges of free- ing its petition into his (sir F. Burdett's) men." The Roman senate were of opi- hands. The hon. member had frankly nion that such a crime deserved no pu- confessed his reason for so doing; and in nishment; it being unnatural to suppose, that also he concurred. He should, inthat any set of men would remain longer deed, be sorry if he could not persuade in a condition of inferiority to their fel- the Catholics, when they brought their low-citizens in point of municipal rights, petition to him, to place it in the hands than they were compelled by sheer ne- of the right hon. and learned gentleman cessity. They came, therefore, to this opposite, who was more worthy than any determination —"Eos demum, qui nihil other member he knew to succeed to the præterquam de libertate cogitent, dignos management of that great cause, which esse qui Romani fiant." The Privernates, had been formerly intrusted to a man in consequence, obtained all the rights whose memory was still fresh in their reand liberties of the state, and were en- collection, and whose name was endeared rolled in the number of Roman citizens. to every friend of liberty and humanity, Would to God that the example of Rome not merely in Ireland, but all over the might have some weight in the present world [cheers]. The right hon. and times! [great cheers.] Would to God learned Attorney-general for Ireland was that the example of a great nation, which, the natural successor of the immortal in spite of the degradation into which it Grattan: he had taken up the cause which had fallen, had supplied to mankind the had been consigned to him by the expirbrightest lessons of patriotic wisdom and ing breath of the venerable patriot; and virtue, and which still possessed a name he trusted that he would still render it that could not be pronounced without justice, by undertaking that task from awe and reverence, might have its effect which he (sir F. Burdett) shrunk, for the reaboth in deterring us from measures which sons he had just declared. He should do must lead, like those they first used to- every thing in his power to persuade the wards the Privernates, to insurrection and Catholics of Ireland to replace their conrebellion, and in teaching us, if insurrec-fidence in the right hon. and learned gention and rebellion should arise, the most efficient means of extinguishing it for ever [cheers]. We were not, however, reduced to such a lamentable extremity at present; but that was not owing to the wisdom of our statesmen, but to the temper and moderation of the Catholic Association. The House might legislate in perfect safety. He had no occasion, therefore, to appeal to their apprehensions for they had been relieved from all apprehensions by the declaration of the Association, that if this bill became law, they would quietly submit to its provisions-but he appealed, on that account, with double force to their sense of justice, to their feelings as men, to their patriotism as statesmen, and to their attachment to the general interests of the tleman: he should express to them his firm conviction that they would aid their cause more by placing their petition in the hands of the right hon. and learned gentleman, than by leaving it in his he should tell them, that they knew the right hon. and learned gentleman's ability, and that he believed in his sincerity: he should inform them, that, though he declined to present their petition, he should be happy to assist the mighty efforts of the right hon. and learned gentleman in giving it effect; and he should conclude by expressing his hopes to them, that by the gigantic assistance of the right hon. and learned gentleman, they would soon behold the anxious wishes of so many years brought to a happy and a glorious consummation [cheers]. The right hon. and learned gentleman had, in the course of his speech, insinuated, that if he (sir F. Burdett) now came forward to press the concession of the Catholic claims, he would be acting inconsistently with his former declarations in that House. Without caring whether he was guilty of inconsistency or not, he would assure the right hon. and learned gentleman, that whenever he brought that great question forward, no efforts of his should be wanting to render it successful. He hoped that it was now making great advances in this country, and he was sure that it had made very great advances since the period to which the right hon. and learned gentleman had alluded. But, let that be as it might, it was not for him to flinch from the performance of his duty. The cause was good; the grounds on which it rested were impregnable; and, come what come might, he would be found among its supporters, and would exclaim to the last, with the Roman poet "hic murus aheneus esto" [loud cheers]. - of what is commonly called the Catholic Question. And to these two questions have been added, as well on former evenings as on the present, disquisitions upon the general conduct of the present administration in relation to the Catholic Question; and appeals personal to myself. On this last point I feel a great unwillingness to obtrude any observations upon the House :-but situated as I am, Sir, the course which the discussion has taken leaves me no alternative. I must, before I sit down, request some few moments of your indulgence upon this point: promising that I shall as gladly shorten what I have to say upon it, as I reluctantly enter upon the discussion of it. This point, however, as the least important, I shall put off, till I have disposed of those which are of more legitimate interest. Sir, I shall divide the observations which it is my duty to submit to the House, into four parts:-the first, the immediate subject of debate, the unconstitutional Associations in Ireland;-the second, the Catholic Question;-the third, the conduct of government, and the fourth, my own personal conduct, in relation to that much agitated question. Mr. Secretary Canning rose and said:*Sir; It is not unnatural that in a debate protracted to so unusual a length, some confusion should have been created by the variety of topics introduced into it. Such The king's Speech asserts the existence a confusion would not have been unnatu- in Ireland of Associations whose proceedral, even if it had not been in any degree ings are inconsistent with the spirit of the designed. But it is still less to be won- Constitution; and are calculated to prodered at when, in addition to the length pagate alarm, and to exasperate aniof the debate and to the multitude of mosities throughout that part of the speakers, we take into account the per-united kingdom; and to retard thereby tinacious determination which has been the progress of national improvement. manifested, to mix with the question before the House, other questions of a totally different nature. That confusion, it shall be my first endeavour to disentangle. Sir, the immediate question before the House is as to the mode in which we shall deal with certain Associations in Ireland, the existence and character of which are described to us in the king's Speech; and with respect to which we have pledged ourselves in our Address, in answer to that Speech,-not indeed to adopt any particular measure of remedy, but to consider what remedy may be most effectually applied to the evil. With this practical question has been mixed, I will not say wantonly and absurdly, but I do say illogically, and as no necessary part of the discussion, the whole • From the original edition printed for J. Murray, Albemarle Street. The fact of the existence of such Associations I do not recollect that any man in the course of this debate has ventured to gainsay. The question, therefore, which the House has to decide is properly this; Whether, having received from the throne a description of the evil attending the existence of such Associations, and having, in reply to that communication, pledged ourselves to consider of the means of remedying it, we shall now proceed,-I will not say to adopt (for that would be matter of subsequent deliberation), but-to take into consideration the means which the responsible advisers of the Crown have proposed to the House for that purpose; or whether we shall turn round to the throne and say "We have on deliberation completely satisfied ourselves that his majesty has been deceived by false information ;that the description applied in his majesty's Speech to the Associations in Ireland is |