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ference improper? Were there any as to which a reconciliation with the mother country seemed probable; or any in which a strong party in favour of that country was still in arms? avowing that, in all at tempts at, or offers to the effect of, mediation, the principle should be to give a preference to the rights of the parent state. The noble earl then entered into a brief view of the circumstances under which Mexico, Colombia, and BuenosAyres had been struggling for independence, in order to demonstrate, that the steps now taken by England in their fa vour could not properly have been taken at an earlier period.—With respect to the affairs of India, and the increase contemplated in the military establishment of the country, the noble marquis who had last spoken, had alluded to certain reports which were abroad. He, however, begged the noble marquis to take nothing more for granted than was declared in the Speech from the throne. It was not by any fault or neglect on the part of the executive government, that earlier information upon this subject had not been given to parliament. Papers would shortly be produced, and if farther explanation were desired every possible disposition existed to afford it. It remained now therefore, only to trouble the House with a few words, and they should, at present, be but few, upon the state of Ireland. To enter fully into detail upon the questions connected with that country, would occupy more time than it was now desirable to devote to it. In considering that matter, which was adverted to in the royal Speech, and would come under the consideration of the Housein considering that matter, he could not treat it as wholly unconnected with the general Catholic question, because there was no subject which affected Ireland at all, which some persons would not be disposed to mix up with that question; but he certainly should treat it as a matter by no means growing out of, or immediately connected with it. For the measure which was to be proposed, there was nothing about it which should prevent its being discussed upon its own independent merits. There was nothing about it which touched the question of Catholic claims, nothing which the advocate of those claims might not vote for as freely as he who stood most opposed to them. With regard to the proceedings taken at this moment by the Catholic Association,

he had stated, when the South American business was discussed, that he did not think that England, or any other country, had a right to set itself up in judgment between the mother country and the colonies. We had no right to dispute the independence; but, on the other hand, we were not entitled to assert and maintain it. The noble mover of the address had adverted to the existence of two parties in another country, one of which was disposed to bring back all abuses, the other to uphold the doctrines of insurrection and resistance to authority. It seemed to him, that in this country it was a strange arrangement of political opinion, that the very same parties frequently, who could only hear of one nation planning an invasion against another with expressions of indignation, would, where any colony rose against its parent state, express nothing but astonishment that its struggles for liberty should not be instantly assisted. Now, what he maintained was, that, except as far as was necessary to her own safety, England had no right to interfere, or to set herself up in judgment between Spain and her South American colonies. The immediate questions were several, prior to a decided recognition. Was there any dispute still pending between the colonies and the parent state? Were there any measures in progress likely to bring about a reconciliation ? Was there any considerable party in the colony in arms in favour of the mother country? In either of these last cases, he should say, that no foreign power had a right to interfere; but, if no such courses were any longer in operation, then the right accrued to interferenot for the peculiar benefit of either party, but for the advantage of the world at large. We had acted with caution in this affair; and it was our duty to do so. Spain was our ally, and had been so long, and our treaty had been a treaty to maintain her entire. From time to time, in the commencement of the disputes, we had offered our mediation to the Spanish government; and it was now clear, that to Spain-not in her state of bondage, but in her period of independent action great part of the colonies, if not the whole, might have been preserved, if that mediation had been listened to. This, then, being the case, the duty of England was clearly to put to herself this question Were any of the colonies any longer in that state which rendered foreign inter

there could be no doubt that they amount- | taxed, while the taxes drawn from Ireland

were comparatively light. Then what could make the difference between the two? He answered, it was the spirit of political and religious dissention existing in that country. If that were the case, he would boldly ask any man whether any greater bar to the prosperity of a nation could exist, than such a convention as the Catholic Association, which must keep alive those dissentions? For the sake of the peace of Ireland, parliament were bound to look to this Association; and in order to bring it definitely before the House, he now gave notice that he should shortly move for a renewal of the committee to inquire into the state of Ireland.

The Earl of Donoughmore said, it gave him extreme pain to rise in opposition to what had fallen from the noble lord; particularly as the Speech from the throne had his approbation, with the exception of only one particular passage. In addressing their lordships, he should speak as an individual who had taken the strongest part in the administration of justice in Ireland, and whose endeavours to admi

ed to an evasion of the provisions of the Statute-book. They were undertaken, and carried on in that spirit which said, determinately-"Whatever law you make, our business shall be to evade and to nullify it." The proceedings of the Catholic Association at this moment were in decided hostility to the intent of the convention act. It was for parliament to declare, whether it would authorize the evasion of a statute so important. There might be those who would say generally, that they disliked the effect of the restrictive laws operating upon Ireland, and that they would do nothing to strengthen or to extend them; but whenever those persons looked at the conduct of the party which called itself the Catholic Association, and saw it actually levying an unauthorized tax upon the Catholic population of Ireland-would they say that the existence of such a body was consistent with the constitution of this country, or compatible with its peace? He protested that, if he stood before the House as the advocate of Catholic claims, the first act which he would vote for should be the putting down of that convention, the Canister the laws with impartiality had not tholic Association; because, if the Catholic claims were granted, they ought to be granted upon their own merits, and not to the demand of such an Association, acting in the way that that body was disposed to act. He renounced every desire, every idea, of interfering with the right of the Catholics to assemble and petition parliament; but that right was not now the question; the question was, whether that conduct should be tolerated which was decidedly inconsistent with the spirit of the laws. He said this, not with reference to parliament alone, but to the nation at large. There were abuses with respect to Ireland, which had in some measure been mitigated since the last session. The House might remember the opinions he had then expressed. It had been attempted to connect those abuses with the Catholic question, with which, however, they could not necessarily nor properly be connected, and he had therefore refused to consider them as relating to each other. He felt that parliament owed it to the peace and prosperity of Ireland, to take some measures to put down any convention in that country. What, he would ask, had prevented Ireland from being equal in prosperity to this country? England was heavily

been altogether without effect. In the present tranquil state of Ireland, and after that country had been so long without disturbance of any sort, the coercive measures alluded to by his majesty's ministers ought not to be resorted to. He maintained that the Catholic Association had produced no evil, but, on the contrary, had effected much good. The Catholic priesthood had been most active in discouraging sedition and tumult, and their efforts had been attended with more than ordinary success; for he would ask, in what other period would that country have proceeded so tranquilly in the pursuit of such an important measure, and when was she in a more tranquil situation than at present? The government ought not therefore to pass a Convention act against six millions of people, who were in a state of tranquillity, and had done nothing to render such severity necessary. While the people of Ireland were submissive to the laws, was it not prudent to leave them alone? And that they were in such a state, was acknowledged in the Speech from the throne. He was really surprised at one clause in the Speech, and upon which the noble earl had said that he would explain himself to the House in the course of a week. Now, he thought

that when the government was going to been a subscriber to that Association, take away the liberties of a country, their and, by the blessing of God, would conexplanations ought to precede their mea- tinue to be so, until the government sures, and not follow them. It was a could contrive to make it illegal. The strange proceeding to put down a people Catholic Association would claim to be by the most severe measures, and then heard at their lordships' bar. Their tell why they had so put them down. lordships might talk of the abuse poured One cry was, that the Catholic Associa-out by the Association against their option spoke the language of sedition; but the law courts had decided otherwise; and, after appealing to the laws of the land, was the government dissatisfied with their decision, and therefore going to make fresh laws? Others had complained that the Association spoke their sentiments aloud. Did they, then, wish them to plot and contrive in the dark? Government might legislate; but they would find that the magic of an act of parliament would not put down six millions of men, who had a just cause to complain of grievances. He should not propose any amendment; but he could not help declaring, that he had a strong objection to that part of the Speech which related to the Roman Catholic part of the community.

The Earl of Roden rose to express his satisfaction at the hope held out in his majesty's speech, and repeated in the speech of the noble earl at the head of the treasury, that ministers would propose measures for putting down the Roman Catholic Association, which had, for upwards of twelve months, been allowed to pursue their dangerous course without molestation. He spoke in the presence of persons who had passed the winter and summer in Ireland, and who could bear testimony to the baneful effects which the Association had produced on the minds of the peasantry. The time had arrived, when it became necessary for parliament to show that they would not be dictated to by the Roman Catholic Association. It was by decisive measures alone that the agitators could be made to crouch, and not by weak and variable proceedings, such as had lately been exhibited in Ire land-he meant the prosecution of this and that individual, which tended to keep up the irritation which already was, unfortunately, but too prevalent in that country.

Viscount Clifden felt himself compelled to address a few words to their lordships upon the subject of the Catholic Association. He had perused the address of that Association, which had been read from the pulpit of every chapel in Ireland; he had

ponents; but did they not also hear of the calumny circulated against them in newspapers, until they had, at a vast expense, been obliged to set up opposition papers, upon the principle of self-defence. For the attacks upon the Catholics, he had only to refer to the Orange Association, and to the Bible meetings. He knew that one noble lord, a prelate of Ireland, the archbishop of Tuam, highly disapproved of these Bible Associations. Their very object was, to make proselytes, and he would like to know how Protestants would feel, if their children were exposed to such a system of conversion from the faith of their fathers. However the government might suppress the Catholic Association in its present form, they could not prevent private subscriptions, and other measures of a similar nature. But, he felt particularly provoked at the government bringing forward this measure at a period when all Europe, except Spain, was without any of these religious exclusions. The measure was most strangely in opposition to a proclamation of his majesty, dated 18th December last, and addressed to his Hanoverian subjects. This proclamation expressly set forth, that no difference of religious tenets could justly lead to any difference in the enjoyment of civil rights, in the countries comprehended in the Germanic confederation. It further declared, that every christian sect, of whatever denomination or description, was to enjoy a perfect equality of civil rights, that the notion of a predominant and merely tolerant church was entirely abolished; that every species of christian was entitled to the free exercise of public worship, and that the clergy were to take their fees, emoluments, and entire revenue solely from the people of their own persuasion. The same freedom to the Irish Catholics had been held out to them by Mr. Pitt, who had left office upon this question in 1801. Fox, Burke, Grattan, Sheridan, Grenville, and other illustrious men, had unanimously upheld these principles, and surely all these men could not have been wrong, and only the other part of the cabinet right. The Catholics and Dissenters, in

eluding Methodists, decidedly out-num. bered the church, and it was impossible that such a system of proscription could continue much longer.

The address was then agreed to nem.

con.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES.] The Lord Chancellor said, that at the close of the last session, he had taken the liberty of stating, that he would, in the course of the present session, move for leave to regulate a system which was now going on to a most mischievous extent-he meant Joint-Stock Companies not yet formed, and which never might be formed, and where, before their formation, the shares of the persons adventuring therein were made the subject of sale, to the enormous profit of those who set such companies afloat. It was his intention to ask their lordships to consent to a bill to check that sort of proceeding. He had thought it right to mention the subject on the first day of the session, because he intended that the operation of the bill should affect all sales of interest on shares in those companies which might be proposed to be established, but not yet formed, from and after the first day of the present session. After having thus stated his intentions, there could be no ground for complaint with respect to the want of notice, supposing their lordships should think proper to approve of the bill. With respect to the past, he would either leave it to be dealt with according to the common law as it at present stood, or he would introduce into the bill a declaration as to what he conceived to be the intent of the common law on the subject.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, February 3.

ADDRESS ON THE KING'S SPEECH AT THE OPENING OF THE SESSION.] The Speaker having reported the Speech of the Lords Commissioners, and read it to the House,

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Lord Francis Leveson Gower spoke to the following effect: . I rise, Sir, for the purpose of moving an Address to his Majesty, to express to his majesty the sense which this House entertains of the gracious Speech which which we have just heard. I believe, Sir, there are sometimes periods in a nation's career when the national prosperity is

either raised so high, or depressed so low, that but one general sensation as to the real state of the country pervades every class of the community; when one uniform feeling springing up spontaneously, and arising from no process of reason or argument, exists in every bosom; when those who are uninitiated in the mysteries of government, or the details of Administration, are conscious of the same great truths as those to whom the direction of our political machinery is committed. I believe the present epoch, to which it has fallen to my lot to direct the attention of the House, to be one of those to which Classing myself, Sir, I have alluded. among the uninitiated persons to whom I have just alluded-laying no claim to that extent and accuracy of knowledge with regard to the interests of the country, which I respect and envy in the many honourable gentlemen whom I see before me and around me, it is my own share of that general feeling which I believe to pervade the country, on which I ground my confident anticipation, that this House will meet with its cordial concurrence, the language expressed in his majesty's Speech, with respect to the general prosperity of the country. I am happy to think, Sir, that the present circumstances of the country render it unnecessary for me to enter into any minute details. At periods when any particular interest, or any peculiar source of the wealth, prosperity, and power of the country is depressed below the level of others, it may be the duty of a member of this House, to call its attention to such a particular subject separately and distinctly. But, at the present moment, such is the general state of prosperity at which the country has arrived, that I feel in some measure at a loss how to proceed; whether to give precedence to our agriculture, which is the main support of the country; to our manufactures, which have increased, and are increasing to a most unexampled extent; or to our commerce, which distributes them to the ends of the earth, which finds daily new outlets for their distribution, and new sources of national wealth and prosperity. With the distress, Sir, under which the country lately laboured, and which has vanished from the face of it, the too frequent concomitants of distress-exasperation and sedition-have happily disappeared. Those whom the immediate pressure of the times may have induced to listen to the evil suggestions

of others, and who may have been betray- | hope that any alleviation of the evils which ed into acts of crime, have returned to may still exist in that country is likely to habits of honest industry; while the few be effected by the proceedings of the body and few, I trust, comparatively, they are which calls itself the Catholic Association -who, wicked in principle, may still-if any hon. gentleman should found his walk the land-walk it comparatively despised, unknown, and unregarded. The torch of sedition, for aught I know, may still be lighted, but the fuel is wanting on which that torch can fall.

hopes of the regeneration of that country on the efficacy of such particular meansI cannot but express the strong feeling which I entertain of the visionary and chimerical nature of such an expectation. In speaking, Sir, of the general pros. As a friend to every measure which can perity of the country, I know of no local promote the happiness of that countryor geographical exception, if I may be as a steady friend to one measure, which allowed that expression. I know of no though not a panacea for all its evils, ranks exception as to any particular district or high among the remedies which may be province of the British dominions, whether applied to them; as a friend to Catholic in England, Wales, Scotland, or, I am Emancipation, I cannot omit the opporhappy to add, Ireland. Honourable gen- tunity which the present occasion affords tlemen have been so accustomed to the me of expressing my feeling with regard voice of lamentation, whenever the state to the Catholic Association-ofexpressing, of Ireland has been alluded to, that some not any animosity, not any unbecoming may feel disposed to start at language contempt of that body or its members, more cheering and consolatory. I think, nor, I will add, any undue degree of fear however, Sir, that the indications of im- of its power and influence, which I believe provement in that country fully bear out to have been grossly exaggerated, but my the language of his Majesty's Speech. regret, my sincere regret, at its existence, British enterprise is already beginning to and my ardent wishes for its speedy anniexercise a salutary operation in that coun- hilation. I think it would be difficult for try, by giving increased energy and ac- the wit of man to devise any more effecttivity to those pursuits which tend to the ual method, at the present time, for checkimprovement and civilization of mankind. ing every measure of improvement, and British capital, the instrument of that encounteracting every remedy which can be terprise, is already insinuating its salutary applied to the evils of Ireland. I grudge juices into the exhausted veins of that the orators of that country no vent for country. Above all, Sir, that tranquillity the exuberance of their diction, and the which is the only basis on which improve- richness of imagination, which so honourment can permanently rest, reigns, I be-ably distinguish them; but I anticipate no lieve, in Ireland to a degree which is unparalleled in our recollection. These are the indications of improvement which warrant us in indulging the hope, that ere long the tide of affluence and prosperity which is fertilising the land in this country, will set in all its strength and richness upon the shores of Ireland. So far, Sir, I have approached a name, which is too often the watchword of all the virulence of debate, and which is apt to give rise to the angry expression of every conflicting opinion, without touching on any topic which is calculated to elicit any material difference of opinion. But it cannot be disguised, Sir, that there are features in the present situation of Ireland-that there are topics connected with its present circumstances, on which I do not feel myself at liberty to be entirely silent, although they may be less pleasing than those to which I have hitherto adverted. If, Sir, any hon. gentleman who hears me should indulge VOL. XII.

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possible beneficial result from the proceed. ings of this body, and see many evils likely to arise from a continuance of the power of indulging in the flow of their eloquence, and the richness of their periods. I have no wish to exaggerate, on the one hand, the indications of improvement which I think may be observed in the aspect of Ireland, nor, on the other hand, to exagger rate the evils which may spring from the Catholic Association; but I cannot but express my hope, that neither the violence of that body, nor the equally pernicious virulence of Orange insanity, may long be allowed to check the progress of improvement in that country. I know that the power and influence of that body have been grossly, and I think cruelly, exaggerated throughout the country. Every phantom which terror can conjure up, has been employed to excite alarm. Ireland, it is said, may be tranquil for the moment; some rents are paid; some landlords sleep D

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