at societies on one side and on the other. Honourable gentlemen had said, that the measure would be ineffectual: he hoped otherwise, and he believed the prophecy would not be found a true one. He thought that the mere expression of parliamentary opinion would have its effect. Let the House look at the acts of coercion which it had been found necessary to pass in this country. They were full of loop-holes, every one of them, by which they might be evaded; but they had succeeded, and perfectly, for the country had a willingness to conform itself to the desire of the legislature; nor had he a doubt that even the discussion which had already taken place with respect to the Catholic Association would induce many to abandon it. Those who really desired to promote the nominal object of that Association, the restoration to the Catholics of their rights-he did not mean to use the term "rights" invidiously, but claims to which no sufficient objection could be made might be termed so-those persons who were really anxious for the promotion of Catholic interests, would 'feel that, in continuing with the Association, they injured the cause which they supposed they were supporting. Some doubts had been raised as to whom the measure originated with; some had mentioned this person, and others that, but he could assure the House, that it was not a measure proceeding either from one part of the cabinet or another, but a measure that had been universally adopted by his majesty's ministers, from a general conviction of the great utility that was likely to be derived from it. With respect to the question of Catholic emancipation, into whatever hands it might be trusted, he felt it to be a great public question, and he should give it his warm support.

perfectly understood that before a jury of one can, a man of another clan, could not have a fair trial. No longer back than the year 1752, a most curious instance to this effect had occurred in the trial of a poor man named Stewart. The panel had observed, that it was the first time it had been supposed possible that a Stewart could have a fair hearing before a jury of Campbells, with a Campbell (the duke of Argyll having gone down expressly for the occasion) sitting as the judge. With reference to the immediate proceedings of the Catholic Association, the hon. member for Queen's county had insisted, that, admitting the statement of the Association's interference as to the case at Ballybeg to be true, still, in that case, as well as in the other alluded to, the innocent persons had been acquitted. Why, they had been acquitted no doubt; but for that they might rather thank their own innocence, than the justice of the Catholic Association. They had been acquitted, because their cases had been so clear as not to leave a shade of doubt; but what effect might not the calumnies heaped on them have produced, if the matter had admitted of a question? The principle it was, that he contended for. Could there be a hesitation in any man's mind upon the subject? The question was not, had an improper interference procured an unjust verdict-or had it power to do so? The country was bound to prevent the possibility of such a consummation. Why, what would be said in England-in any country where there was even a semblance of administering justice of every means taken to prejudice the case of a prisoner, be his crime what it might, in the mind of his jury, before he went to trial? It was a course too monstrous to be even argued about, far less to be defended. He saw no way of ending these evils, but by an act like that which was now proposed. Had it been an act peculiarly to put down the Catholic Association, he would never have consented to it-for he never would have consented to any law which went to make a difference between Protestant and Catholic; but he felt that the system of Association had always been one of the most mortal banes to the prosperity of Ireland; and therefore he supported the present bill, as one which struck equally

* See Howell's State Trials, Vol. XIX, p. 11.

VOL. XII.

Mr. Calcraft said, he never recollected a question of deeper importance, and which affected more nearly the vital interests of the empire, than that which was now under the consideration of the House. He was satisfied, that if it were attempted to stifle the voices of the Catholics, by this or any other measure, and if the just rights of that body were not conceded, visitations would be perpetually occurring, in the shape of conventions, Catholic boards, and Catholic Associations. Notwithstanding the professions of the right hon. gentleman, he must say, that he could not put much faith in the sincerity of those who, while they expressed their desire to X

hon. gentlemen remember the visit of his majesty to Ireland? He (Mr. C.) had happened to be in the country at that period; and never had he witnessed so enthusiastic a burst of loyalty. Had this expression been confined to the Orangemen? The Catholics had been the most forward in it, and the most sincere. And yet, any man might have seen, without possessing the gift of prophecy, how the cause of Ireland would be disposed of. His majesty came with lord Sidmouth in one hand, and with the marquis of Londonderry in the other. From such a con

do justice to the Catholics, continued to not be suspected that the Catholics had form part of a government which declared any thought of carrying their rights by concession impossible. The right hon. force. They could not entertain such an gentleman had said, that he would put idea, and be attached to the state and the down the Catholic Association, because constitution, as he believed them to be. it would lead to counter-associations. But, if the House thought it possible that Why; it was in itself nothing more than by bringing in this bill the progress of a counter-association, created in opposi- their great work would be impeded-that tion to those Orange associations, which the concentration of their numbers would the right hon. gentleman had declared be checked, and their collections of money himself as willing as any man could be to for general purposes be prevented-if hon. denounce. The House was told of acts gentlemen expected to see that, they would of coercion passed with respect to Eng-find themselves disappointed. The formaland; but, there was no body in England tion of this Catholic Association was desituated as the Irish Catholics were si-plored. What less than the formation of tuated. He confessed he hoped that the such societies, under the circumstances of Catholics of Ireland would continue the country, could be expected? Did united; and, as long as they assembled in a legal and constitutional manner, he trusted they would continue to press their claims upon parliament until they obtained them. He never remembered to have heard a minister come down to the House of Commons and ask that body to prevent the subjects of the realm from meeting to discuss their grievances, upon proof so lame and defective as that offered by the right hon. secretary for Ireland. Here was the country itself in a state of tranquillity greater than any man recollected; a society the proceedings of which were all open; there was no insurrection threat-junction, was there any thing to be hoped? ened, no green-bag produced, none of the ordinary paraphernalia to give weight to such a demand; and yet the House was called upon to pass a bill, which forbad the Catholics from seeking to obtain those rights which they were entitled to. True, it was alleged, by the hon. member for Louth, that great fears as to this Association were entertained in Ireland; but these fears were feigned. From sources which he could not doubt, he was assured that no such apprehension existed. The timid might be alarmed; the tyrannical and the designing would pretend to be so; but the ministers of government knew that no cause for alarm existed, and that rumours had been set afloat, tending to create it, which had no foundation. The right hon. gentleman who had last spoken, expressed his belief that the Catholic Association would not resist the bill before the House. He (Mr. C.) felt convinced that they would not resist, because they would anticipate it. Long before the measure could pass, the Association against which it pointed would have faded away, to meet again directly in some other form, equally suited to its purposes. It could

At such a sight, well might Ireland have exclaimed "My bane and antidote are both before me! This in a moment says the bill will pass: but this assures me it can never be!" The warmth of language used by the Catholic Association had been complained of; but what was more natural than for large bodies who had substantial grievances to complain of, to give vent to their complaints in warm language? The expression in the Address issued by the Association had been made the subject of complaint. An invitation to peace, "by the hate you bear the Orangemen," was an expression which, no doubt, sounded, strangely to English ears. But, the meaning of this passage had been greatly perverted. The hatred alluded to was not the hatred of Orangemen personally, but of a system of bigotry, tyranny, and misrule. It was the hatred of those who barred the adjured of the blessings of the constitution of their country: who had plundered them, crushed them, trampled on them for centuries. It was in the name of their hatred to this course, and to the inventers of it, that the Address charged them to forbear from joining illegal socie

ately related. That was his object, rather | nication also recommended, that the than the hope of throwing any additional entire state of Ireland should be taken into light on the subject then before the House. consideration in the course of the session. He confessed that he never had risen in The situation of that country was to be that assembly with emotions of greater considered, not with reference to any pain, nor did he ever approach any ques- particular point, but with reference to all tion with feelings of deeper apprehension points; and from those of course it was than he approached this. It was said, impossible the Catholic question could be that the measure now proposed was con- excluded. It was necessary to pursue trary to the popular principles of the con- this course, for the purpose of curing the stitution; and that it was intended, through evil, of which the Catholic Association a breach of those principles, to wound was only a symptom. He could not, the cause of the Roman Catholics. The therefore, conceive, let the individual be measure had been denounced, by gentle- ever so sincere a friend to Catholic men whom he highly respected, as one Emancipation, how he could object to the that was likely to be attended with cir- proposed measure, accompanied as it was cumstances of the most ruinous nature. by the declaration contained in the speech These, certainly, were very heavy impu- from the throne. It was said, and truly tations on the proposition made by his said, that, at the moment when the peace right hon. friend; but he must say, that of the session was likely to be disturbed down to the present moment, they rested by the bringing forward of this measure, on mere assertion, and were unsupported Ireland was in a state of peace and traneither by argument or proof. Coming, quillity. And his hon. friend, who spoke however, from persons of so much sin- last, wondered why such a measure, under cerity and ability, as those to whom he these circumstances, had been resorted to. had alluded, he was led almost to doubt He would admit that Ireland was in a state the evidence of his senses, and to distrust of peace and prosperity. She had parthe proofs which the converse of the ticipated in the general prosperity of proposition laid down by those gentlemen the empire. She had been enabled, by was capable of receiving. He trusted the noble lord at the head of the governthat, upon consideration, it would appear ment, and by the measures which he had to the House, that the proposed measure matured (measures of the most wise and did not interfere with any of the popular temperate description), to enjoy the privileges of this country; he trusted also blessings which were the offspring of it would be found that it did not affect internal tranquillity. Those measures had the Catholic question; and he confidently been properly administered; and public trusted that none of those disastrous con- confidence had, in consequence, been sequences would flow from it, which some restored. The noble marquis, when sent gentlemen seemed to anticipate. The to Ireland, had found that country in a question rested not on ordinary grounds; state nearly bordering on rebellion. He it rested on the ground of imperious and softened down the feelings of exasperation essential necessity. The safety of the that existed, and the people soon placed state made the adoption of this measure confidence in the justice and benignity of absolutely necessary. Before he pro- his administration. It was a great blessceeded further-before he touched on ing-it was a most gratifying object-to incidental points he would call the atten- behold that country now floating on the tion of the House to the real nature of tide of public confidence and public prosthe question which was proposed for perity. She was lying on the breakers, consideration. It had been argued very almost a wreck, when the noble marquis generally on the opposite side of the arrived; and if he had not taken the House, that this measure attacked, most measures which had been so successfully materially, the privileges of the Catholic adopted, she never could have floated on body: but he begged leave to say, that it that tide of public prosperity. went to attack all illegal and unconstitutional institutions, whether arrayed on behalf of the Roman Catholics or against them. This was not a single measureit was not a measure hastily taken up: it was adopted in consequence of a communication from the throne, which commu

He could not agree with the hon. and learned member for Winchelsea when he asserted, that the return of peace and tranquillity to Ireland was attributable to the exertions of the Catholic Association. But, even if that position were true, still it formed a reason for adopting the present

measure; because, as the hon. member for diately granting the Catholic question? Galway (Mr. Martin) had very properly He (Mr. Plunkett) sincerely wished to said, all argument as to the necessity of grant the claims of the Catholics; but if this measure was at an end, if once the they could not grant them, were the existence of so formidable a power was legislature, therefore, not to make proadmitted. If the Catholic Association vision for any circumstances of danger could put down those who were illegally which they might have reason to appreinclined, could they not raise them up hend? [hear, hear, from sir F. Burdett.] again, if they thought proper? "Tollere The hon. member for Westminster apseu ponere vult freta." And here he peared to notice this proposition. He would beg leave to say, that amongst the wished him to do so. If this measure of persons who were most active in effecting Catholic emancipation were not granted this restoration of order and tranquillity, by the House, was the refusal, he would and in convincing the people of the ask, to be submitted to, or to be resisted? advantages which were derived from an Because, the answer to that question equal administration of the laws, were involved the justice or the reprobation of the Catholic priests of Ireland not the the measure now before the House. The Catholic Association, who arrogated to fact was, that if the Catholic question was themselves all the merit, who wished to felt to be of that paramount importance run away with all the praise that was due which called for instant adoption (and to to the nobility, clergy, and gentry, of the that point he went), there was no necescountry [hear]. The Roman Catholic sity for this institution; but if the measure clergy had, without any dictation from that of Catholic emancipation was not adopted, body, preached to the people the principles and if the refusal was to be resisted by of religion and of peace. He said this in the physical force of Ireland, then, he justice to that most useful and most calum- contended, that this was an Association niated set of men. Having borne this testi- which ought to be opposed as well by the mony to the tranquillity and prosperity of friends of the Catholics as by those who Ireland, the question naturally was- were adverse to their claims [hear]. "Why, when the state of things is so flatter- Before he proceeded further, he would ing, do you bring this measure forward ?" very shortly remind the House of the He would answer, that, although he never nature of this Roman Catholic Associremembered a period when greater pros- ation. He did not mean, after the lumiperity prevailed in Ireland, yet he never nous statement of his right hon. friend, recollected a time when so great, when so and the remarks which had been made in violent a degree of excitation existed in the course of the debate, to give more that country; and he knew that much than an outline of the Association; conalarm was felt on account of the danger fining himself strictly to those points that might arise, if the present system which he deemed essentially necessary. were allowed to go on with a progressive It appeared that this society was formed increase of strength. That very con- on a plan different from those numerous siderable alarm existed in the minds of defiances of the law which had existed in many Protestants, it was impossible to deny. He did not mean to contend, that this alarm had not been exaggerated: that it had been very much raised by wicked and interested persons, he readily admitted: but the desperate conduct of this society had tended to verify the justice of the fears and apprehensions that had been conjured up. An hon. member had, in the course of his speech, admitted that in the parts of Ireland in which he had been, he had observed that this excitation was powerfully alive. He further said, that amongst the Roman Catholic population, he had observed more excitation and expectation, than he ever remembered to have witnessed before; and he asked, whether this was not a reason for imme,

Ireland. A number of gentlemen had, it seemed, formed themselves into a club, not merely for the purpose of forwarding the Roman Catholic question, but "for the redress of all grievances, local or general, affecting the people of Ireland." He quoted the words of their own address; and he must say, that those parties undertook, on the moment, as many important subjects as ever engaged the attention of any body of legislators. They undertook the great question of parliamentary reform-they undertook the repeal of the Union-they undertook the regulation of church-property-they undertook the administration of justice. They intended not merely to consider the administration of justice, in the common acceptance of