ried into effect the prejudices of neither. He needed not to remind their lordships of past times, when the Irish administration was in different circumstances when agitation was kept alive by acts of intemperate violence-and when scarcely a day had a people. But Spain claims dominion | the interests of the country, while he carover colonies situated in a distant country, having no force in them, and without a ship to send to sea, or a regiment to embark, with a tottering throne bolstered up by an army of foreigners, detested by all people, and without either funds or credit. We may be blamed for not tak-passed without witnessing some outrage. ing this step earlier, but we cannot be censured for taking it now. We have proceeded with caution and delicacy, for it is a difficult question to decide, where insurrection ends, and legal government begins. His majesty's government have proceeded slowly, prudently, and justly. They have not pretended to determine where allegiance ought to end and lawful resistance begin; but have acted openly upon the undisputed fact of the states of South America, with which treaties have been concluded, being actually independent. We had proceeded cautiously, that we might have nothing to retract. Our intercourse has grown with their growth, and strengthened with their strength; and has now become complete, as their independence has become unquestionable. The noble viscount concluded by stating, that he did not consider the other topics of the Speech from the throne to be of such importance as to render it necessary for him to detain their lordships by any observations upon them. Lord Gort said, that in seconding the address, he felt that few observations would be expected from him, after the able manner in which it was introduced by his noble friend. He would therefore confine himself to the expression of his opinions on that part of the royal speech which referred to the state of Ireland. It gave him pain to observe some of the proceedings of the Catholic body in that part of the empire. The noble marquis at the head of the Irish government had conducted his administration in a temperate, wise, and impartial manner, so as to gain the confidence, and merit the approbation, of every moderate and unbiassed mind. He could not, indeed, satisfy all parties, but he satisfied all those whose wishes deserved to be consulted. On the one hand, there were the violent agitators of the Catholics, who wished to turn the discontent which they created to their own advantage: and on the other, were the no less violent opponents of their claims. Lord Wellesley, in conducting his government on reasonable principles, and in a temperate manner, had shown that he consulted The government of lord Wellesley furnished a striking contrast to this order of things. By his judicious measures, the turbulent had been restrained, the deluded brought back to their duty, and the peace of the country restored and maintained. The constabulary force had been put in full action-confidence had been re-established-agriculture was improving-the value of land had been raised-and commercial and industrious establishments were forming. So much good had resulted from the wise measures of lord Wellesley's government, that he hoped soon to be able to congratulate their lordships on the growing prosperity of Ireland. But, while this was the situation of affairs on one hand, he could not, on the other, omit bringing under the notice of the House the conduct and the pretensions of the Catholic Asso❤ ciation. That body had assumed the rights, and exercised the powers of a parliament. It imposed taxes, issued proclamations, and made laws for the Catholic community. Its professed object was Catholic emancipation, but its real tendency was, to overthrow the constitution. He should have an opportunity hereafter, of offering his opinion on the Catholic question, when it was brought distinctly before the House. Under that persuasion he would abstain at present from entering into the subject; but thus much he would say, that, if he was the worst enemy of the Catholics, he could not advise them to a course more destructive of their interests, or the purpose they had in view, than that which they were now taking. No man could hear of their proceedings, without feeling that they were acting in direct hostility to their own success. They indulged in the most inflammatory speeches; they told the people that they were slaves, and that the Protestants held them in bondage. Was this a language calculated to advance their claims? There were, as matters now stood, two parliaments in this empire; there was the Catholic parlia ment of Ireland, and the Protestant parliament of England. The two parliaments could not exist together. He therefore agreed fully in that part of his majesty's speech, which alluded to the putting down of this association. The collectors of the Catholic rent, and the debaters by whom it was promoted, affected to issue proclamations, with a view to tranquillise the people. It would be recollected, however, that the people were tranquillized before by the active measures of lord Wellesley's government. The claim of those partisans to the credit of tranquillizing Ireland was therefore absurd. He did not mean to insinuate that any of the leaders of the Catholic body were capable of advising the people to resist the laws, but he would say, that the power which they now assumed was too great to be left, consistently with prudence, in the hands of the people. He did not think that any obstacle should be thrown in the way of the Catholics on coming forward to petition parliament; but, when they came to the House they should come as petitioners, not as dictators; and then he had no doubt that their prayers would be considered with all the patience which their importance demanded; they should bear in their hands the olive branch, and not the sword. Lord King said, that he perfectly approved of those measures which had for their object the promotion of the industry and commerce of the country. The Earl of Lauderdale here reminded the House, that the address was not yet known to their lordships; that it had neither been read by the noble mover or seconder, nor from the woolsack, nor by the clerk; and that the debate could not formally proceed until their lordships knew on what they were debating. A conversation here ensued, in which lord Holland, the earl of Lauderdale, the earl of Liverpool, and the lord Chancellor took part. Lord Liverpool allowed, that the forms of the House required the reading of the address, and took blame to himself for being the cause of the omission. The lord Chancellor said that he was not anxious to save his lungs, but it was his fault that the address was not read. He would, however, repair the omission and read it. The address was then read from the woolsack, Lord King observed, that he agreed with the address of the noble lords, that the resources of the country had been relieved, and its industry stimulated and improved. He gave his cordial approbation to those measures by which this result had been produced. It was the VOL. XII. more pleasing to him to state this approbation, as the commercial regulations and measures of foreign policy on which their lordships were congratulated had been pressed upon the government by himself and his friends. They had given an advice to ministers, which, though at first opposed and neglected, had at last prevailed. As ministers had thus come round to the opinions of opposition, he hoped it would not be the last time that he should have to congratulate them on their docility. He hoped that they would take advice on a very important question, the corn laws, and that ere long they would introduce consistent measures for the trade in grain. As far as the Speech from the throne was the speech of the chief magistrate of the country, he received it with all respect and honour. He admitted that the situa tion of England was prosperous and fortunate; but their lordships should not forget that such was not the situation of six millions of Catholics on the other side of the Irish channel, suffering under a misgovernment which was a disgrace to our age and country. The world, in general, was now too wise to allow governments to inflict penalties, or to withhold privileges, on account of differences of religious faith. States now left their subjects to adopt any creeds they chose, without depriving them of their civil rights. The English government was the only government which carried on a contest with a large portion of its empire on account of religion. Ireland and Turkey might be cited as the only countries in Europe, where whole races were oppressed and punished on account of their faith. The grand sultan had been endeavouring to make converts of the Greeks, as the government of England had been endeavouring to make converts of the Irish Catholics; but they had not succeeded. When the unhappy Greeks complained of the sufferings which they endured, and applied to be treated a little better than Mussulman dogs, the sultan sent for his grand vizier, to ask him what was to be done. This grand vizier had at first been a friend, and then an enemy of the grand sultan. He had thus lost much of the favour of his master, and therefore much of his influence. The head of the Turkish ministry then suffered himself to be bearded in his own divan, by his officers and serving-men. He was understood to be hostile to some of the claims of the Greeks. The next person in the divan, in point of influence, C sooner got in than he agreed to the very thing against which he had clamoured. He kept the sultan's conscience and his own; but it was never remarked of him that his conscience opposed his interests. He was first employed in office by the grand vizier, "who weathered the storm." He went out after his death, but having afterwards come in again, as an enemy of the Greeks, he had ever since continued to act with some of their friends rather than again lose his office. Having minutely studied the Turkish constitution, he had found out that it was essentially Mahometan, and therefore hostile to Greek privileges. He had resolved, therefore, to continue staunch to the cause of intolerance, and was surrounded with the Mollahs, the Imans, and the Dervishes, who encouraged him in his hostile purposes. To complete the picture of this divided divan, the members who composed it had resolved, that in certain questions they should agree, and in certain questions they might continue to differ, without was the Reis Effendi, who was friendly to the just demands of this persecuted people. This officer, it was well known, was minister for foreign affairs. His foreign policy deserved and obtained general approbation. In this part of his duties he conducted himself with remarkable liberality and talent. He had done great good, and gained considerable popularity to the government of the sultan, and would have done more had his measures not been opposed by his less enlightened colleagues. He, in fact, was the only man of real genius in the whole divan (a laugh), and was esteemed an ornament among Turkish statesmen, being gifted with poetical talents, and capable of showing "The rage of the vulture, and love of the turtle," as best suited the occasion. The Kiaya-Bey or Turkish minister of the interior was opposed to him, and was likewise an enemy of the Greeks. In his capacity of KiajaBey, he was a fair minister, but was no match for the Reis Effendi. He had dismissed his predecessor as useless from the divan, and certain verses of his were re-breaking up their union. Such was the membered, in which he had held him up to ridicule in somewhat of the following manner: "Cheer him, cheer him, brother Hiley, Cheer him, cheer him, brother Bragge." The triumph of the Reis Effendi over this officer, who was an enemy of the Greeks, was complete. The capitan pacha, another member of the divan, was likewise against the Greeks, in their claims for civil privileges; but the leader of the opposition to their cause was the head mufti or chief of the Mussulman law. This officer was an enemy to all change. He had regularly opposed all improvements in trade-all improvements in law all improvements in foreign policy. He had been, and always proclaimed himself, the greatest champion of existing abuses. He was the most consummate intriguer of the whole divan. [Alaugh.] He had at one time taken up the cause of the Sultana; but he turned against her when he found that by continuing to support her he would forfeit his place in the divan. He then took up the cause of her enemies. At one time there was a proposal to admit some Greeks into the regular troops, or body of Janissaries. He then raised such a fanatical cry against this measure-very similar to the cry of " No Popery" in this country that he turned out of the divan the members who had adopted it. He succeeded himself to office, and he no harmonious discord of this Turkish council. Having seen the evils resulting from such divan-having seen the Mussulman empire torn by this intolerance of some members of it to their Greek brethren, and their quarrels among themselves-he would pray that this country might not be delivered up to such a divided cabinet. [A laugh.] The Marquis of Lansdown said, that he would not have troubled their lordships with any observations, unless in order to express his dissent from one part of the address. With regard to most of the general topics which had been discussed that night, there could not be much diversity of opinion. The country could not fail to feel the justice of the sentiments expressed generally by his noble friend who moved the address, even though they had not been enforced with so much eloquence-an eloquence which he should always hear with pleasure, from whatever side of the House it came. He gave his hearty concurrence to all that had been said about the internal prosperity of the country, and the wisdom of its foreign policy in the recognition of the independent states of South America. As he gave his hearty approbation to this last measure, he would not stop to refer to the time or the circumstances in which it had taken place, or to decide whether it ought not to have been adopted earlier. He thought that this country should look to the recog. nition of American independence as a bright object, not only on account of the commercial interests which it would promote, but of the just principles which it would establish. For the sake of no commercial object should we act upon principles contrary to what we owed to our own honour, or what was due to others. He saw no reason why this acknowledgement should not have taken place nine months ago. He was happy to see that when it did take place, it was connected with no stipulation for commercial advantages. He was likewise glad to see that it had no reference to particular forms of government-that it admitted of aristocratic, republican, or monarchical institutions. The broad principle which the recognition supported was, that every nation had a right to choose its own government, without foreign interference; and this sufficiently distinguished our policy from that of the nations of the continent. It showed that we had no community of feeling with those governments which claimed this right, and it embraced a wider space than could have been done in any particular instance, without exciting resentment, or placing our system in direct opposition to theirs. Nothing had been said by the noble mover or seconder of the address on the state of affairs in India, or the Burmese war; yet it had been said, that this war had created such an alarm, that it required an addition to our army of 10 or 15,000 men to allay. He did not know the force or the pretensions of the Burmese; but a war with so distant a power, which required so great an addition to our army in a period of otherwise general tranquillity, would, no doubt, be made the subject of a special communication to parliament. Distance should not so far diminish our interest in such a state of things, as to make us insensible to so great an increase of our establishment. Some communication, therefore, would, no doubt, appear necessary; and he would say nothing further on the subject, until it was laid before the House. With reference to that part of his Majesty's Speech which touched upon the state of Ireland, he regarded it as peculiarly deserving the attention of the House. He did not mean to enter-nor would he do so until more fully informed-into the proceedings of the Catholic Association of that country, either in the way of justification or attack; but he must caution their lordships to beware how they suffered themselves to be beguiled into an expectation, that, by merely removing the outward symptoms of the malady submitted to their treatment, they gained any thing against the cause which brought those symptoms into exhibition. In a state of irritation like that which prevailed at present-irritation arising out of the discontent of five or six millions of people, placed with respect to their law, their church, and their exclusion from political power, in a state entirely different from that of any other body equal in numbers in any country in the world-in this state of things, he conjured noble lords not to believe that, by checking the present measures of the Catholic Association, however those measures might call for check, they would cure the disease which affected the body of the Irish population. The existing symptoms might be quashed; but new troubles must and would arise, arresting the prosperity of the sister kingdom, and unnerving the vigour of our own. With this view of the difficulty to be surmounted, he should look at any specific measure which might be proposed; but he thought it fair to say, that he set out with the conviction, namely, that in any country situated as Ireland was, there must always exist a large fund of discontent ready to be drawn upon for evil purposes. Such being the case, was it not more desirable that public opinion should make its way by open channels than by secret ones that correspondence should be carried on, and that that sort of systematic relation which would always prevail between different bodies of men labouring under similar disabilities, should circulate openly and avowedly, than that it should be conducted in darkness and concealment, working its ends unheard and unperceived, and producing mischief where it perhaps might have been harmless, had the eye of authority been able to pursue it. It was not, he repeated it, the outward and visible signs, however unfortunate they might be, that government had to dread these signs did not embody the disease with which Ireland was afflicted. The freemasonry which government had to dread, was that which bound men to each other by a common sense of interest, which taught them to strengthen themselves by alliance, and to aid each other in evading the law. What the nature of the evils anticipated from the proceedings of the Catholic Association was, he did not know. The noble lord who had seconded the address had adverted to the danger, but had not distinctly expressed the nature of it. When he should have full information upon this point, he should be ready to consider of any measure proposed, and to adopt such measure if the necessity for it should be shown; but still with a caution which he hoped to communicate to the House generally, not to increase the evil by checking its outward display rather than striking at the root of it; and certainly not to be too hasty in putting down the public manifestation of discontent in a country where discontent, so long as the present system lasted, must inevitably manifest itself in some shape or other. thens which, indeed, pressed heavily, but which, nevertheless, at that time, it had been impossible to take off. But if the two Houses of parliament had displayed firmness in the course of the great struggle which they had carried on against France, they had shown no less firmness in meeting the pressure consequent upon the conclusion of that struggle. Parliament had determined-and they had carried their determination into effect-to attain that, without which the prosperity of the country never could have rested upon a solid foundation: they had determined to return to a sound metallic currency; and they had accomplished this without violating a single previous engagement which they had entered into with the public creditor. The task had been a Herculean one; but we had accomplished it, and were now enjoying our reward-England had reached a state of prosperity, greater than any other country enjoyed, nay, greater than she herself, at any antecedent period, had ever attained. This, then, being the internal state of the country, government might fairly proceed to the agreeable task of removing those restrictions which, under less prosperous auspices, it would have been unsafe to meddle with. With respect to his own conduct, and the principles which he advocated, however he might have held that, up to a certain time, those restrictions ought to be maintained, parliament was bound, he thought, always to act with caution; but, the general principles of free trade he had always laid down as the great foundation of national prosperity, and as those which ought to be resorted to at the earliest moment that the situation of England would permit. With respect to the recognition of South American independence, the noble marquis who had last spoken, expressed his entire approbation of that measure. The question, in fact, had been, not whether South America should be open to the commerce of Great Britain, but whether she should be open to the intercourse of mankind at large. Important as he had always thought that question with respect to South America-important as he had considered it with reference to other political interests than those immediately developed-still he should have felt himself unworthy of the situation which he filled, if he had allowed that question, as far as his opinion was concerned, to be argued upon any narrow principle of commercial interests whatever. On a former occasion The Earl of Liverpool said, that he should not have addressed any observations to the House, but for some of the statements made by the noble marquis who had just taken his seat. When a spirit of general satisfaction seemed to pervade the country, and when the noble marquis himself appeared to join in it, and admitted that it had increased in prosperity, ho difference of opinion existed between them. After the eloquent description that had been given by the noble mover upon the state of the country, he should not weaken its effect by attempting to say any thing upon that subject; but he could not pass one topic relating to it upon which he peculiarly congratulated himself, and that was, that after all the difficulties which England had contended with successfully during the progress of the war, she had found that difficulties scarcely less trying remained yet to be surmounted in a state of peace. The same question which circumstances had brought into discussion frequently before, was now agitated again, and with redoubled violence. Vast numbers of persons concurred in thinking, that the country could never again return to a metallic currency, and yet keep faith with the public creditor. The House could not but fully recollect these opinions, connected as they had been with the difficulties sustained by the country in its transition from a war of twenty years' duration to a state of entire and absolute peace. Their lordships knew the clamour which had been raised-the numerous publications which had issued from the press upon this subject. In the midst of distress and difficulty, government had been called upon to reduce the burthens of the people-bur |