Mr. Secretary Peel said, it was not his wish to provoke any discussion upon the question, but he wished the course he intended to take to be perfectly clear and well understood. He had no hesitation in stating that he could not accept of the two mea sures as a compromise. The proposed plans of disfranchising the forty-shilling voters, and of making a state provision for the clergy, would not induce him to relax his opposition to the pretensions of the Catholics. But, it was possible that his opinions upon the Catholic claims might be over-ruled, and then the question would be, what course he should pursue in endeavouring to modify future proceedings. Upon this his mind was not made up. In the present state of the question, he should declare that he could not accept of the proposed measures as a compromise for withdrawing his opposition to the Catholic claims.

ment upon the question. He by no means blamed those who took a different course, and who probably arrived by that means at much more valuable information than he himself could reach. He thought that the explanation which had just taken place was an act of bare justice to Mr. O'Connell.

Mr. Brownlow did not pledge himself to any particular line of conduct; but, from an extensive correspondence with those who had lived in constant hostility to emancipation, he was enabled to say that, in the event of that question being carried, it would materially lessen the general alarm, if it were accompanied with a provision for the Catholic clergy and a qualification of the franchise. Whether the Catholic question were carried or not, it was nothing more than a becoming measure to provide for the Catholic clergy, who, in the performance of the most numerous and arduous duties, might be said, almost without a figure, to be left to beg their bread. As to the question of elective franchise, he said, as heretofore, that it was miscalled a franchise when applied to the 40s. freeholdersthat they were not freeholders-had no free choice-could exercise no freedom of election. A Catholic bishop had declared, that he had seen men with the appearance of mendicants going to register their votes, though there was nothing like a qualification in their leases. They were compelled to go, or they must look for the severest consequences. A most respectable witness, Mr. Blake, had stated, that emancipation would be incomplete, if not accompanied with a provision for the Catholic clergy, and an increase of the qualification in the elective franchise. Freedom of choice these electors had none. Their bodies were threatened by their landlords-their minds were in spiritual danger, if they did not vote according as they were dire cted.

Mr. Tierney said, that even if he were hostile to the two propositions, yet if it could be proved that they were likely to become the means of conciliation, and cause many persons to wave their opposition to the principle, that would strongly bias his mind towards their adoption. He reserved himself, however, for the proper opportunity of deciding upon them. He was determined to give the whole subject his most earnest consideration. He wished to add one word upon the case of a distinguished individual of the Catholic Association. He was happy to have the confirmation of the hon. baronet to an assertion which he had made on a previous night. The House had been advised by the right hon. Secretary opposite, to watch the bill narrowly in its progress through the committee, if it were to reach that stage; and the reason urged by the right hon. gentleman was, that the bill itself had been drawn by a gentleman who was one of the chief members of the Catholic Association. He had then stated to the House, that the fact must have Mr. C. Grant said, he apprehended, been misrepresented to the right hon. that few persons had ever considered the gentleman, as his statement disagreed affairs of Ireland seriously, with whatever with the strict truth of the case. He view, without wishing for a remedy to could not see any great impropriety in two evils-the want of provision for the the conduct of the committee in applying Catholic clergy, and the abuse of the to the quarter from whence they were elective franchise by the 40s. freeholds. likely to procure the greatest abundance As to the priesthood, they merited, for of information. For his own part, he had their services in assuaging the disorders made it a rule to withhold from any com- of the country, more than any sum which munication with that body, because he could be voted to them; and, if the qualiwished to give an opinion which should fication of the elective franchise would be the result of his own unbiassed judg-conciliate opposition to the measures of

emancipation, he would cheerfully acquiesce in it, for the sake of uniting so large a portion of the population in a stricter bond of union.

Mr. Dawson did not see how the Protestants were to be conciliated by taking away their elective franchise, with a view to granting Catholic emancipation with safety. The Catholics, doubtless, would obtain a boon; but, what would the Protestants get? There were many parts of Ireland in which the elective franchise was as purely exercised by 40s. freeholders, as in England. It did not appear to him, that their assent would be more easily secured by depriving them of their votes, as a concomitant measure.

Mr. W. Courtenay said, he could not contemplate the two propositions of paying the priesthood, and qualifying the elective franchise, as conditions of compromise. Of themselves, he considered them particularly salutary, and highly necessary to the welfare of Ireland. He had the misfortune to differ with his constituents upon the subject of emancipation. They were impressed, as he was, with the present state of things. But they, unlike himself, were of opinion that there was less danger now, than there would be after granting the Catholic claims. For his own part, he would support the bill of the hon. baronet, whether it were accompanied with those qualifica

tions or not.

Mr. Littleton disclaimed the most remote intention of interfering with the rights of real 40s. freeholders in Ireland.

MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES-PUBLIC BUILDINGS.] The House having resolved itself into a committee of supply, Mr. Herries moved, "That 40,000l. be granted to defray the expenses of Works and Repairs of Public Buildings, for the year 1825."

consequence of which the public were likely to be reimbursed any part of the expenses to which they were annually subjected on account of these prisons?

Mr. Herries apprehended that the hon. gentleman alluded to the act passed in 1724. It was very true, that that act did provide that the marshal for the time being should, out of his fees, provide for the repairs of the King's-bench prison, then to be built under the very same statute. In 1780, the prison was destroyed; and it had become a question, whether the act of George 2nd could be applied to any other than the prison which had so existed up to the year 1780. It was considered, that it could not; and that construction, he believed, had been acted on ever since. Whether the arrangement provided under the act of George 2nd was a proper one to be again acted upon, might, undoubtedly, be a proper subject of consideration.

Sir M. W. Ridley was of opinion, that for the principal officers of the government, it would be highly proper, as well as convenient for the public service, to provide official dwellings attached to their respective offices, at the expense of the public. He begged to ask, whether it was intended to continue along the present line, and over the vacant space which one end of Downing-steet at that time presented, that extraordinary range of buildings which had been commenced at the Treasury, and which was so odd an elevation, that he hardly knew how to describe it. If it resembled any thing, with its one tier of building so strangely heaped upon the top of the other, it resembled a double stand on a race-course. Indeed, it reminded him strongly of the stand on the race-course at Doncaster.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer had no hesitation in saying, that the buildings which were to be erected in continuation Mr. Hume wished to ask one question of the present structures, would be in respecting the expenses of the King's- strict uniformity and harmony, and upon bench and the Fleet prisons. An act of a well-considered plan. He was aware parliament, passed many years ago, re- that the public attention was at present quired the expenses of all repairs done to directed to public buildings, more than in these prisons to be paid and provided for former times. It was not easy for an arout of the fees accruing to certain officers chitect, of all other persons, to escape appointed for the management and go- criticism; because his work was exposed vernment of the same. Those fees, how-to the public eye during its progress, ever, had latterly been taken entirely by the individuals nominated to such offices. Now, he wished to know whether any arrangement had been entered into between the government and those individuals, in

and commentaries were often put upon detached and imperfect parts of a structure, which would not apply to it when in its finished state. This was a disadvantage which the architect had to en

Works, He trusted, however, that no architect would be again employed in the same manner, or remain under so little control, as the architect of the Custom.

Mr. Littleton did not think it necessary to provide all the ministers with houses built at the public expense; but there were some, for whom such an expense was absolutely necessary. He would in-house had been. In fact, he was the ar stance the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. No one could doubt that it was necessary, both on account of the dignity of the office which that right hon. gentleman held, and for the convenience of the foreign ministers, with whom he was constantly transacting business, to provide him a house at the public expense. With respect to the other ministers, whom he believed to be greatly underpaid, perhaps it would be better that they should have an increase of salary than that houses should be provided for them.

Mr. W. Smith animadverted on the extreme facility with which gentlemen had lately indulged in reflections upon the architects employed on the public buildings. Almost every member who had spoken on these subjects, forgetting the old maxim, "de gustibus non est disputandum," seemed to believe that he had discovered some infallible rule of excellence, by the test of which all new edifices might be tried; and, if their proportions and aspects did not come up to this test, hon. gentlemen really loaded the parties with the severest censures, not to say the most opprobrious epithets, alike inconsistent with ordinary candour, and offensive to good manners. They spoke as if they themselves were intimately acquainted with all the rules received in the science of architecture; and as if every thing was to be conceded to their opinions, and nothing to the technical skill, the knowledge, or the judgment of the architect whose works they reprobated.

Mr. James Martin requested to be informed, what was the nature of the defect that had displayed itself in the structure of the Custom-house, and by whom the expenses of repairing and remedying it were to be defrayed?

chitect to the Customs; and, in conse quence of holding that situation, the task of erecting the Custom-house, had been intrusted to him. He had employed a builder under a contract. In that contract the specifications were all drawn out, and when the building was finished, the architect certified, that the work had been done according to the specifications. It turned out, however, that part of the building known as the Long Room, had given way; and he feared it was too true, that a most scandalous fraud had been committed upon the public. It was to have been built upon piles, and the Long Room especially was to have stood, according to the specification, on an arch, the pillars of which were to have been supported by nine regular piles of considerable strength. Now instead of this having been done, it stood only on four piles and a half, which were not placed regularly; and intead of these piles being round pieces of solid timber, like the masts of ships, they turned out to be merely trees, with the branches chopped off. That was undoubtedly a fraud; and every pains had been taken to obtain repayment from the builder for the loss that had been suffered. He was generally believed to be a person of large property, and means had been adopted to render that property available to answer the expense, should he ultimately be found to be liable. He did not know that the parties concerned in this building had done any thing to bring themselves within the operation of the law; but that point was at present under the consideration of the law officers of the Crown; and, if it should be found that they had rendered themselves liable to the operation of the Combination law; they would be proceeded against for a conspiracy. Whether there could be sufficient proofs of a combination between the parties, he did not know; but, undoubtedly, he could say this, that means had been taken to examine fully into the matter, in order to afford the fullest satis

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it was intended, that they should come out of the funds of that department of the revenue. It was impossible for him to say what would be the amount of the expenses of repairing that place. It was true, that it had been built at a great ex-faction to the public. pense to the public, under the direction of an architect, who was not at the time under the same control, as the other architects employed in public works at present were; namely, that of the Board of

Mr. Alderman Wood, having the pleasure of knowing Mr. Peto, thought that charges of this kind, coming from so high a quarter, ought not to be hazarded, until they could be brought forward in some

Mr. Baring said, he was much in favour of building houses for the principal officers of state, not for the convenience of the individuals, but for the benefit of the public.

Sir M. W. Ridley said, he wished to see his majesty's ministers provided with houses, in every respect comfortable and convenient; but he had no desire that splendid mansions should be erected for them at a great expense. He was sure, if new houses were erected for them, the public business would be considerably expedited.

tangible shape. Seeing that the right hon. gentleman spoke of offences so serious in their character, the accusation ought to be distinct, and the grounds of it ought to be distinctly stated. First of all, he had heard that Mr. Laing the architect had not pursued the plan which he ought to have gone upon; and then, again, he was told that the gentleman who contracted with this architect, had not performed his work according to the stipulated specifications between them. Many reports had been, and many more would now be circulated, to the prejudice of Mr. Peto's character. This was wrong. Mr. Hume objected to the way in which If he was to be tried, he ought at least buildings, the property of the public, were to have a fair trial. He had hitherto at present disposed of. In some instances, conducted himself with the greatest pro-individuals, whose salaries were not more priety, and he ought not now to be attacked in this manner upon mere supposition.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he should not have stated what he had done, had not the question been put to him. He did not charge either of the parties with having acted improperly, he had merely said, that if it should appear that they had acted collusively, they would be proceeded against. He had not the slightest wish to institute proceedings against them; but if proceedings became necessary, they certainly would be instituted.

Mr. Alderman Wood observed, that the sooner these injurious reports were set at rest the better. The individual to whom allusion had been made had at present works in hand, the execution of which would amount to upwards of 300,000l. On one occasion he had been obliged to give his vote against that individual, in consequence of the rumours that had been set afloat.

Mr. Maberly said, that if ministers were underpaid, their salaries ought not to be made up by building them magnificent houses; for that would only be attended with an increase of expense in their style of living. The only true way to remove the evil, if it existed, was to increase their salaries so as to afford them a proper remuneration for their important labours. Mr. Bernal observed, that one of the individuals who had been occupied in building for the public, alleged that from 20,000l. to 30,000l. were due to him. This was a subject that called for inquiry. He conceived it would be very proper in future, to have a regular superintendant of public works.

than 120l. a year, were placed in houses of the value of 2,500l. or 3,000l. He really thought that they had already laid out quite sufficient on public buildings. One million had been voted for building churches, 300,000l. for repairing Windsor Castle, with a long list of et ceteras. Surely these grants were sufficient. He did not object to the particular charge now under consideration; but, seeing such items introduced from year to year, he thought it required a great deal of consideration, before they proceeded further. No building should be carried on, by means of the public money, unless it was absolutely demanded for the public service.

Mr. T. Wilson was anxious, when public works were undertaken, that they should be prosecuted on the most efficient, and, at the same time, the most economical plan. He would not spoil a work for the sake of a trifling saving. There was such a thing as spending a pound in the endeavour to save a shilling. There ought, in his opinion, to be an enlargement of the chief public offices. Formerly, the same business was not transacted in them as there was at present. He looked upon money laid out in rendering those offices more convenient, as most beneficially expended. It was, in fact, a piece of public economy.

On the resolution, "That 40,000l. be granted to defray the expense of Buildings at the British Museum, for the year 1825,"

Mr. R. Colborne rose and spoke in favour of having the National Gallery of Pictures, the foundation of which had been recently laid, placed in a separate building, and in a more central situation than