majesty's attorney-general for Ireland | tive of consequences which would make could give ministers a convenient caution every lover of his country shudder. against confiding too implicitly in news- Mr. Martin, of Galway, assured the paper reports. Was it criminal to raise House, that the Catholic Association money for any purpose not favoured by possessed the entire confidence of the government? If the attorney-general for Roman Catholic population. This was a Ireland maintained such a doctrine, he feeling predominant in every county in must never have heard of the Whig Club; Ireland. But, while he said this, he felt for there money was subscribed and bound, in justice to the Roman Catho objects effected certainly not very pleas- lics, to state, that they did not agree in ing to his majesty's ministers. But further, all the sentiments uttered in that Associa if it was unlawful to subscribe money at tion. No man lamented more sincerely all, what becomes of those who contribu- than he did the degraded state in which ted their money for the prosecution of the Roman Catholics of Ireland were poachers? In order to contribute to that kept; but he must observe, that they owed object, a revenue must be raised by col- their present situation, and their present lections from individuals. Oh, but the feelings, to no less a personage than the people of Ireland must not subscribe even Lord Chancellor of England; for did they for their own protection; and least of all not see that that high personage had taken must the priesthood be found concerned the lead in refusing the Catholics of Engin the collection of such subscriptions! land an equality of privileges with their And why not the priesthood as well as Irish fellow subjects? Having witnessed other members of the community? Were this, they felt convinced, that if his lord→ not they British subjects, and therefore ship were possessed of the power, he entitled to an equality of rights and privi- would deprive them of those privileges leges? Were they not the sons and which they now enjoyed, and bring back brothers of the middling classes of society; every proscription and punishment formerfor the fact that they were so had at length ly in force against popery. This was a slipped out from their opponents? And natural and a just feeling. How, indeed, if so, why were they not to be allowed to could they argue otherwise, when they saw participate in any measure which had for the Catholic population of England, the its object the attainment of their rights and most loyal body of persons in England, privileges? What would their opponents still restricted even from the privileges exhave? Did they wish that the Roman tended to those who were falsely desig Catholics should resort to secret cabals nated as factious and disloyal subjects in and conspiracies for the attainment of that the sister kingdom. He could assure the equality of rights to which they felt them- House, that on returning to his own counselves entitled? Much better it was, that try, he had found that a great many gen they should come openly forward, and tlemen, who had previously avoided all state to that House and to the country public matters, had determined to co-ope the disqualifications under which they rate for the purpose of rescuing themselves laboured, and the redress which they from the disabilities under which they were anxious to obtain. The right hon. laboured. He wished to advert to another gentleman had been last night very pleas- point, upon which a serious error ant with the tale of Dennis and his thun- prevailed in this country: he meant the der. But here was Jupiter himself select-impression, that the Roman Catholic Clering his sharpest bolts for the Catholic gy were in the habit of forgiving sins. Association. Much as the gentlemen He assured the House that there was not opposite dreaded Irish oratory, ought a more fallacious idea. The Catholic they not to give an opportunity for justifi- priests, in giving what was called absolucation, defence, and explanation? This tion, did nothing more than was done by was the thunder which they least ap- the Archbishop of Canterbury upon simiproved. The hon. and learned gentlemen, lar occasions; aye, and precisely in the in conclusion, cautioned the House against same words; that was to say, they promi entertaining a measure calculated to pro- sed forgiveness to those who declared duce in the minds of the Catholics of themselves penitent, and expressed a wish Ireland feelings of irritation; a measure and hope to be forgiven. That forgivewhich they would justly consider as an ness was pronounced by the Protestant and act of aggression on the part of the Brit- Roman Catholic clergy, precisely in the ish parliament, and likely to be produc- same words, and the same spirit.

Mr. Butterworth begged to contradict most unqualifiedly the assertion, that the Methodists levied a tax upon the members of their society. Whatever sum was raised consisted of mere voluntary con

deed heard one other mode mentioned; | pression he had used last night. He had and certain he was, that the Association been supposed by several hon. gentlemen would take some shape or other, as long to have said, that the Catholic Association as Catholic disabilities existed. The pay- represented the whole body of Catholics. ment of rent, as it was termed, had been He was quite aware, that if they had done called last night the levying of revenue. so, they would have been liable to the He did not think it deserved that name; penalties of the Convention Act. He for he believed it to be merely a subscrip- had, therefore, expressly qualified the tion by the population, for purposes essen-word "represented" by the addition of the tially their own-for their protection from adverb "virtually." the oppression of Magistrates in various parts of Ireland. In the county he then represented, the rent had hardly been collected at all; and the reason was, that the Catholics there met with no oppression, the two sects living in the most perfect har-tributions. The Methodists were influenmony together: a subscription was therefore wholly needless. But it was little less than ridiculous to talk of any real danger to the government from the sum of 9,000l. being collected in this way, and vested in the Public funds. But, if any objection could be raised to this sum, and the manner in which it had been collected, how could any other similar subscriptions be justified? That of the Methodist Conference, for example, which was infinitely larger in amount, and which was unquestionably applied to political purposes. Although the Catholic interest in that House was comparatively feeble, the Methodist interest was very powerful. He recollected that, in the last session, he had seen more external influence brought to bear on a question in which the Methodists were interested, than on any other of which he knew-he meant that relating to Smith, the missionary. He had heard with delight the protest so solemnly entered that night by his right hon. friend (sir J. Newport). All the Catholics must deplore the loss of so valuable and so sincere an advocate, and he trusted that the date of that loss would be long postponed; but, after what had fallen last night from the secretary of state for foreign Affairs, no man, however young, could expect to witness the accomplishment of the great measure of Catholic relief. For one, he had abandoned all hope; and, if the same feeling pervaded the Catholics, what a dismal prospect would be presented! Yet how could they feel otherwise, when they saw the House about to adopt a system of government by which the Catholics were to be prevented even from meeting to petition for the consideration of their undoubted claims?

Mr. Brougham wished to explain an ex

ced by no compulsion, and great numbers of them did not subscribe at all. The right hon. member for Kerry did not seem well informed upon the subject, more particularly if he thought that missionary Smith belonged to that body. The Methodists had never interfered in any political question, and the objects of the subscriptions were entirely religious. Now, he knew it for a fact, that a considerable number of Protestants in Ireland had suffered very materially in their circumstances, because they had not contributed to the Catholic Rent. Their business had fallen off in consequence; for secret influence was at work to injure them. Thus the innocent and inoffensive had been punished because they would not accede to what was arbitrary and illegal. He was satisfied also, from the most respectable authority, that in the interior of Ireland the Catholic Association had created the utmost alarm, and many families had been obliged to leave the country, and to take up their residence in towns. He thought that ministers would be extremely negligent of their duty, if they did not at once put down the Association. He called upon the right hon. member for Kerry to prove, if he could, the fact he had asserted; and on his own part, he totally denied that the society of the Methodists had any politi-. cal tendency.

Mr. M. Fitzgerald expressed his regret that the hon. member should have so misunderstood him. In alluding to the Methodists, he intended to say no more than that the collection of the Catholic Rent in Ireland was, in every respect analogous to the Methodist contributions in this country; both these payments having the common property of being voluntary, and not being made under any compulsion.

Mr. Butterworth repeated, that the conference money was collected only for religious purposes, while the Catholic Rent was devoted to the employment of newspapers, and perhaps the bribery of individuals, to support certain political notions.

The report was then brought up. On the question that it be agreed to,

He had never said that the Methodist | seemed anxious to bring on a crisis—to contribution was a tax. hasten and compel resistance; and they, and especially the right hon. and learned gentleman who sat by their side, would be responsible for the consequences. On them mustthe blood rest, if blood should be shed. With respect to the proposed augmentation of the military force of the country, he should say, in the first place, that it was directly contrary to the liberal spirit and policy professed by ministers in the last session. For what purpose could a larger army be needed if it was not that more troops might be kept at home to use the bayonet in Ireland? For the ten years preceding 1792, the standing army in England had never exceeded 33,000 men, and in 1821, the House unanimously voted an address (an amendment on a motion made by himself), recommending his majesty to reduce all the establishments, but particularly to lessen the enormous military establishment then existing. The amount of force then was 86,000, and he had proposed to diminish it to 76,000; yet, in the tenth year of peace, at a time when all Europe was tranquil, and, according to the king's speech, likely to continue so, the army was to be increased by the addition of 10,000 men. Already ministers had no less than 73,000 men under their orders. Last year parliament had agreed

Mr. Hume remarked, that it had been his original intention to have moved an amendment, but the debate had taken so beneficial a turn, that he was not disposed to lessen its effect, by interfering with the solemn farce of the Address, for such the right hon. secretary for foreign affairs had himself admitted it to be. His amendment would have stated, that the address contained assertions false in point of fact; for ministers had been convicted of putting the grossest misrepresentations into the mouth of the sovereign. He had never seen a cabinet so degraded and humbled. The attorney-general for Ireland had been bearded in vain: he knew the pitiful figure he already cut before the world, and was unwilling to add to it by attempting and failing in his vindication. A libel upon the whole Irish nation (for the Catholics, were the nation) had been pronounced from the throne, repeated into an augmentation of 3,000 men, in conthe address, and reiterated in the speech of the foreign secretary. The Association had been formed for the assertion of rights: it had asserted the just rights of the Catholics, who had been too long quiet and had now come forward in a constitutional manner. He trusted yet that they would be heard; that persecution would be at an end; and, anticipating such an event, he had rejoiced last year to hear that it was the intention of the Irish government to administer the laws equally between Protestants and Catholics. In what way was the measure now projected consistent with such a declaration? On what pretence was the Catholic Association to be put down, or why was it more obnoxious than the Dissenters' Association, which had existed for many years, for purposes, as the annual report testified, very similar to those of the Catholic Association? Oppression could only be borne to a certain point, beyond that point there was a remedy, to which our ancestors had resorted, and to which it was the pride and boast of their successors that they had appealed. Ministers

sequence of the disturbed state of Ireland; and though it was asserted in the speech, that Ireland was not only tranquil, but contented and flourishing, instead of reducing the standing army, it was to be augmented. Whatever statements might be offered by ministers to account for this addition, it would be believed on the continent, that Great Britain was arming for some unknown purpose, and her proceedings would be viewed with distrust and suspicion. The address to the throne was admitted on all hands to be a mere mockery and farce, and of late years it had been the custom in the royal speech to avoid every topic that could disturb unanimity. Thus, the king and his parliament no longer dealt in wholesome and useful truths; but a system of artifice and delusion was kept up, that nothing at all unpleasing might reach the ears of majesty. This year, however, some statements had been made in the speech from the throne, of which proof was required at the hands of the responsible advisers of the Crown; but they refused all explanation, and withheld all evidence. In future, he recom

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mended, that the proceedings of the first enable him. Further accounts had been day of a session should be regarded as received, by which it appeared, that the mere forms; and that nothing should be sickness at Rangoon had materially abated. said on the address, by those who disap-It happened, unfortunately, that all the proved of it, until twenty-four hours had entrances to the Burmese territory, been allowed for consideration. In the whether by the northern or southern name of the Irish nation, and of the frontier, were extremely unhealthy. This Catholics who formed that nation, he pro-was of course an evil, for the consequences tested against the address, because it con- of which the governor-general was not tained libellous falsehoods; and he lamen-responsible. It was, however, an evil ted the deplorably pitiable situation in which ministers were placed before the country.

Sir C. Forbes lamented that the additional force about to be despatched to India, was so much smaller than the occasion required. Instead of sending out men in driblets, 40 or 50,000 ought to be embarked at once, to put a speedy termination to the war with the Burmese; for if it were not soon concluded, circumstances might arise out of it, to shake the security of the whole of our Indian possessions. Whatever reinforcements were destined to that quarter of the world, ought to be conveyed thither as quickly as possible. The grossest ignorance had been betrayed in the distribution of the force which was under the command of the governor-general. The troops had been quartered in unhealthy places, and the season of action had been allowed to expire before they commenced operations against the Burmese. It was the duty of the board of control, but this had not been done for these fifteen years past, to lay before the country an annual budget, containing a description of the real state of India. He lamented the want of this document at present; since it would have shewn how precarious was our situation, when war was raging on every side.

which must be surmounted as well as might be; and he had high authoritythat of the late president, and of captain Symes-for believing that the course adopted was most likely to effect that object.

Mr. Alderman Heygate said, that unless the Catholic Association were speedily put down, it must govern Ireland. There was no alternative. No government could safely tolerate an establishment, holding its sittings daily, levying money by intimidation, and prosecuting those who opposed them. He was also highly gratified at the recognition of the independence of the South American states, and the manner in which it had been effected, so as to maintain the tranquillity of the world. As to the reduction of taxation, he hoped that ministers would do away with the assessed taxes altogether. The independence of the people was more affected by what were called direct taxes, than by any other species of contribution, because they were brought more immediately into collision with the taxgatherer. He was sure the feelings of the country, with respect to this class of taxes, were so unequivocal, that if the question of a reduction of duty on French wines, or the cessation of these taxes were put in issue, nineteen out of twenty would hold up their hands for the latter. He had said thus much, because he thought the ministers had the interest and prosperity of the country at heart. They were justly popular now, and he hoped they would continue to be so.

The address was then agreed to.

Mr. Wynn said, that papers were now in the press which he should be able shortly to lay before the House, containing a body of information on the subject alluded to, and which papers it was necessary that hon. members should be in possession of before any discussion should be entered upon. The war had UNLAWFUL Societies in IRELANDbegun in consequence of the unprovoked CALL OF THE HOUSE.] Mr, Goulbourn aggressions of the Burmese, and their ex-gave notice, that he would, on the 10th travagant pretensions, which could have been resisted by no other means than those which had been adopted. When the House should be acquainted with the particulars relating to this affair, he should be ready to enter upon the case of lord Amherst, as fully as the papers might

instant, move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend certain Acts relating to Unlawful Societies in Ireland.

Mr. Brougham hoped that, upon his humble representation, the right hon. gentleman would be induced to postpone the notice he had given for a week. He