ments which had been advanced by the hon. member.

the protection which they now enjoyed in the markets of this country. Every species of British manufacture was proThe same

Mr. Robertson suggested, that the most effectual relief to be afforded to our colo-tected against competition. nies, was to be derived from a total emancipation of the slaves. Unless the owners of colonial property did this, they would do nothing which would afford them permanent relief.

might be said of the linen of Ireland, and of the salt-fish of North America; and why should not the same protection be afforded to our colonial produce? Did those who wished to have the sugar of Captain Maberly observed, that the the East Indies imported into this country, protecting duty on West-India sugar had mean to grant to the persons who cultibeen defended, on the ground that the vated it, all the rights and privileges which legislature, by its enactments, had in- they themselves enjoyed all those rights duced individuals to embark their property and privileges which were possessed by the in the West-India colonies; but that he West-India proprietors? He believed they held to be no sufficing reason for keeping did not; and if that were the case, then he up the price of an article which might be came to this conclusion-that the same denominated a necessary of life. In his protection which was afforded to the Westopinion, it would tend greatly to the in-India planters ought to be conceded to terest of this country, if we were not at all connected with the West-India Islands. From the time of Adam Smith, down to the present day, every intelligent writer on political economy had condemned our colonial connexions. The trade to the West-India Islands was, to all intents and purposes, a losing trade to this country; and the sooner England got rid of those colonies, and of the heavy expense which they incurred, the better would it be for her interests. Sugar could be procured at a comparatively moderate price from the East Indies; and by importing it from that part of the globe a double advantage would be gained; on the one hand, the article would be cheaper; and, on the other, the country would be relieved from those heavy military and civil establishments, which she, and not the colonies, now supported.

interest.

Mr. Blair supported the West-India The country, he contended, was not prepared to adopt the sweeping proposition of the hon. member who had just spoken.

Mr. Charles Ellis said, that a solemn compact had been entered into between the mother country and her colonies; the former having stipulated to grant every protection to the latter. That compact ought never to be lost sight of. Upon that ground, he objected to the course proposed to be adopted by the hon. member with whom the debate had originated, and, generally, to the arguments of those individuals who advocated the introduction of East-India sugar, and who would fain force West-India sugar out of the market. He conceived it to be most unjust to attempt to deprive the colonies of

them. The advocates for East-India sugar argued, that it ought to be imported, because it was produced by free labour; but, if this argument relative to free labour were carried to its full extent, it would be very unfavourable for many of those who adopted it. Gentlemen would recollect, that the greater part of the cotton which was manufactured in this country, was brought in its raw state from the southern provinces of America (Georgia for instance) and Brazil. Did they not know that a great portion of those who cultivated cotton in Georgia were slaves, and that the whole of the cultivators of cotton in Brazil were also slaves? Were they not apprized of the fact, that the numbers were kept up by constant draughts of negroes from Africa? Now, he would ask, did not those persons who purchased cotton thus raised encourage, nay, aggravate slavery? Why, if they held slavery in such abhorrence, should they encourage it by using the slave-labour of another country? Yet, if they did not, they would be obliged to break up their intercourse with a great part of America, and altogether with Brazil-a sacrifice, which his right hon. friend, the president of the Board of Trade, would not, he apprehended, be very ready to make. Neither did he think, even if the matter were explained to the manufacturers of this country, that they would be ready to accede to a proposition for refraining from the use of cotton the produce of slavelabour. He contended, that the bounty on the exportation of refined sugar, the produce of the West Indies, was perfectly just. He wished that his right hon. friend could bring forward some equitable ar

rangement, by which the interests of the two parties connected with this question would be preserved, while each of them received a certain benefit. As to the proposition of his right hon. friend, with reference to rum and brown sugar, he feared, if it were not considerably modified, that it would prove an injury, instead of a benefit, to the colonies.

ficial bounties, caused the neglect of this branch of cultivation. The removal of a system which had such injurious effects would be extremely beneficial. Take it either way, it must do good: if the culti→ vator ceased to employ the negroes, there would be a diminution of labour but if he still chose to employ them, there would be an increase of provisions. It was quite clear, that where the least quantity of sugar was grown, the slave was better off than where the cultivation of sugar was carried to a great extent. In Barbadoes, each slave was calculated to cultivate annually five cwt. of sugar; in Jamaica, two and a half; and in Demerara, seven cwt. In the first island, there was a small decrease in the population; in the second a small increase; and, in the third, the diminution was as great as could be occasioned by war, famine or pestilence. This, he thought, was a satisfactory evidence how injurious to the slaves was the cultivation of sugar, and how much they would be benefitted by the necessity of cultivating it being diminished.

Mr. Trant feared that the effect of discussions like that which had arisen on the present question would be highly injurious to the interests which were involved in it. He was sure that if similar measures were adopted with respect to the East-India interests, the consequences would be such as must be universally deplored. Whatever might be the opinion of the House as to the principles on which the privileges enjoyed by the West-India proprietors was founded, it would, in his opinion, be equally unwise and unfeeling to take from them at this time those advantages.

Mr. Fowell Buxton said, he should not have trespassed on the House at that time, had he not thought it his imperious duty. The question was one which was foreign to his studies, and on which he felt in general little disposed to address the House. A dry question of duties was not one which he usually liked to speak on; and, before he said any thing further, he could assure the House, that though he warmly opposed slavery, he had not the smallest particle of hostility towards the West-India proprietors. A good deal had been said about the bounty afforded to the West-India proprietors. One gentleman had said it was 3s.; another that it was really nothing; and a third had told them it was something, but he did not state what. It was, therefore, he conceived, a fair subject of inquiry. He hoped ministers would grant a committee, before which the facts would be stated; and then he had no doubt that what his hon. friend who introduced the subject had said, would be found to be correct. It was asserted that a rise in the price of sugar was good for the slave, and that a depreciation of price was prejudicial to him. Now, he denied this. A reduction of the price of sugar must of necessity occasion a reduced growth of sugar; and how, he asked, was that to injure the negro? A reduction in the price must Mr. Bright said, he should not have produce one of two effects-either the been induced, at so late an hour, to have proprietor would cultivate less land, or addressed the House, but for the silence that if he did continue to cultivate it, he which his majesty's ministers had thought would substitute some other article of fit to observe upon this occasion. He did growth. In either case, this must be so now, chiefly for the purpose of exbeneficial to the negro. If the proprietor pressing his hope, that those persons who ceased from cultivating his estate, the professed themselves the friends to the negro would, of course, be exempted from principles of free trade would take care labour; but if, on the other hand, he that the West-India interests were not the continued to cultivate, the negro must be only exception to the general application employed in raising provisions. He was of those principles. Those interests had sure, that the custom of not growing pro- already suffered materially from the effects visions was one of the greatest evils in the of a system opposed to that liberal one colonial system; and he believed that which was now so warmly praised. The many persons thought the growth of pro- exports from the West Indies to North visions in the colonies should be attended America had been reduced to almost to almost exclusively. The custom of nothing. He could not sit down without keeping up high prices by giving arti-observing on one of the statements which

to direct them. Our diplomatic expendi- | the scale then laid down, in all his arrangeture for the present year amounted to ments, and had endeavoured, as much as 300,000l. Now, for this extravagant possible, to make such retrenchments as expenditure we had no balance, no re- could be made consistently with the pub, turn; and therefore it was, that he called lic exigencies. With reference to the upon the committee to examine into its expense of the different public missions to details. If, in 1816, when it was pro- South America, that was a completely posed to bring within bounds the diploma- new subject-one of such large extent, tic expenditure of the country, any one and as yet so unexplored, that it was prehad said that the same rate of expendi- mature to call upon him, either to say, ture would be continued for five or six whether any given sum in the shape of a years longer, no body would have credited vote should be deemed the utmost extent the assertion; and yet, such had actually which the public would be called on to been the case; for in the last seven years pay, or whether there might be a possiwe had expended 2,060,000l. in payment bility of diminishing any of the missions of our ambassadors alone. Surely, some already established among those new gomode of retrenching this expenditure vernments. He could, however, assure ought to be devised, in order to rid the the hon. member, that he had carefully country of some of the vexatious taxes examined the allowances given in this which pressed so heavily on individuals. branch of the public service, and was of He complained of the manner in which opinion that they might be considered as the accounts of the diplomatic expendi- regulated rather below than above the fair ture were intermingled with those of other principle of remuneration. It was, he departments of the state. For instance, thought, quite clear, with reference to in one class of the civil list, 226,000l. these new governments, that, if this counwas annually charged for the expenses of try was disposed to encourage a close our ambassadors. Now, in addition to this connexion with them, we must be prepared sum, bills were annually sent in from each to meet the necessary burthens of the new of our residents, which reached a most expenditure arising out of such closer unwarrantable amount. In 1792, they connexion. It was, however, as he had were but 5,900l. In 1818, they had already said, a new and unexamined part reached 27,000.; but, in the last year, of the public expenditure at present. As they had reached the extraordinary sum of to what the hon. gentleman had said of 80,000l. So that our diplomatic expen- seeking to defray the expense of this new diture at present amounted to somewhere part of the public service, by a retrenchabout 312,000l.; and this, too, exclusively ment out of the diplomatic missions among of the 60,000l. which was now wanted for the smaller states of Europe, he was quite the establishments of our different consuls surprised at such a proposition. The hon. in South America. He had no hesitation gentleman must feel, that, in many of these in saying, that our diplomacy for the cur- missions to the smaller powers, there was rent year would, in some way or other, involved a larger question than the mere cost us 400,000l. He contended, that the expense of diplomacy, which would reright hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs tard any wish of abandoning the subsistwould consult the interest of the public, by ing diplomatic connexion with the minor withdrawing our ministers from the petty courts. It was surprising to hear such a states of Germany. A fund would thus wish hinted from the hon. member; who be created for defraying the expenses of was always the advocate of preserving the our new diplomatic relations with South independence of this part of the lesser America; which, if they were not so de- European confederacy, by the aid of Britfrayed, must ultimately become a burthen ish influence. Such a retrenchment as upon the country. the hon. gentleman had alluded to, would amount, if carried into effect, to an abandonment of public duty. Indeed, he thought that the good-will of those powers was well purchased by the comparatively trifling expense of the diplomatie establishments which it had been their policy to maintain in them; and he could assure the hon. gentleman, that in the three instances in which he had reduced

Mr. Secretary Canning said, that the House had, in the year 1816, minutely examined the whole diplomatic branch of the public expenditure, and laid down a scale for its future arrangement. It was therefore by the result of that investigation that they ought to judge of the present establishment. He could assure the House, that he had guided himself by

the expense of these missions, it had cost the British government great pains to convince the courts where reductions had taken effect, that it was not thereby intended to lower them in the estimation of Great Britain, or of the other larger states in Europe. With respect to the Paris mission, he was entirely confident, that the late ambassador would have been unable, without the aid of his private property, to have sustained the dignity of his diplomatic station out of the allowances which were assigned by the government for his use; and as to the present ambassador, with whose private affairs he was better acquainted, he could assure the hon. gentleman, that that noble lord would feel himself perfectly satisfied, if in addition to his allowance of 11,000l., he had not one half as much more, perhaps entirely as much more, to supply from his private fortune. He agreed in the propriety of selecting men of independent fortunes to fill such high offices; but he would add, that they ought not, by undue reductions, to make those offices unfit for others who might be called, without such private advantages, into the service of their country. He thought it was most desirable that the sovereign should be enabled to select the men best qualified to discharge those duties, without reference to accidental advantages, and always to have the office placed upon that proper scale, which would enable such persons to perform its functions in a becoming and honourable manner. He repeated, that he had always endeavoured to regulate this department with reference to the scale agreed upon in 1816; but he must say, that he did not think the mere mention of particular sums in its expenditure, with a circumscribed reference to particular and evanescent circumstances, was the proper way in which the country ought to estimate such matters, either with justice to the individuals, or with reference to the honour and utility of the public service.

as might be wished, yet he hoped he could explain both the nature and propriety, as well as necessity, of their appointment. Among other concessions which it had been found difficult to obtain from Spain, there was one that always had been of most difficult persuasion-namely, the tender of pecuniary compensation. It would be recollected, that a few years ago, many British ship-owners had incurred heavy losses, by captures made upon them by Spanish subjects, contrary to the law of nations. They naturally solicited the protection of their own government to obtain redress, and various appli cations had, in consequence, been made to the then Spanish authorities. After this course had been duly taken, and no proper redress afforded, the government felt itself called upon to issue an order to the British commander-in-chief on the West-India station, to make reprisals upon the commerce of the Spanish islands, to the amount of the British claimants; but it was thought reasonable, when this order was issued, and before it was carried into execution, that the government of Spain should be informed of the fact, before summary measures of redress were resorted to. This led to a further negotiation: in the first stage of which, the Spanish government conceded an acknowledgment of the prin ciple of the British claims, and abandoned that denial of justice which was their previous ground. The matter was then referred, upon the admission of the principle, to a convention, which was to inquire into the specific extent of the losses, for the purpose of their eventual liquidation. During the preliminary proceedings, and before this convention was in progress of execution, the Spanish government underwent a change, and the king of Spain upon his restoration, annulled all the acts of the preceding government; but, subsequently, this single convention was again recognized: indeed, it was the only act of his predecessors which his Spanish majesty had admitted. The convention being Mr. Hume said, there was another item thus resumed, the commissioners went to to which he wished to call the attention work, but slowly, from the peculiar. cirof his majesty's government. He aliuded cumstances under which they had to act. to the item of 8,2471. for paying the ex-Months were lost before the king of Spain penses of the Spanish commission for investigating the claims of British merchants. Where were those commissioners? and what had they done?

Mr. Canning said, that though he could not, perhaps, give as satisfactory an account of the progress of these commissioners

had appointed new commissioners; and he was sorry to say, that, even during the last year, the Spanish commissioners had been changed no less than three times. Notwithstanding these impediments to the execution of the convention, he was glad to state, that of the claims of Brit